Demonstration against Let Women Speak Oxford

So I fundamentally disagree and apply my reservations to myself as much as others. New citizens are very welcome- my DiL to be will eventually be one. She’ll never be English in the way my son is, just as he will never be Chinese.

Agree. When KJK went to Australia Neo-Nazis turned up in support of her.

Not a good look at all.

I'd assume he was there in order to show that he as a Muslim supports LGBTQI+ rights, and specifically the rights of the LGBTQI+ community in Oxford.

And to show that these views aren't necessarily incompatible with belief in the Koran as a holy book.

Tbh I dislike evangelism full stop, but when I walk past preachers on Cornmarket in Oxford shouting about how I'm going to burn in the fires of hell, it's refreshing to see Dr Ramzy there as well with his free copies of the Koran (Qu'ran I should probably say) and his umbrella blazoned with the slogan 'God Is Gorgeous'. 😂

He's a familiar figure around Oxford. My DC studied RE at school and we have one of his free copies of the Qu'ran still lying around our house.

Sorry but that's super disingenuous. Of course 'Let Women Speak' has a specific agenda to promote beyond just letting women speak. Just as most of the feminist threads on MN have a specific agenda to promote. It's an anti-trans, anti-queer, anti-non-binary agenda. It's an agenda that involves promoting the voices of certain women at the expense of others.

Agree. When KJK went to Australia Neo-Nazis turned up in support of her.

Not a good look at all.

My question is what were they even doing there, it's been reported that they were a counter protest, but you only be a counter protester if you have a protest to counter. Let Women Speak weren't there to protest anything they were there just exercising their to right free speech, so the others could only have been there to protest the right of women to speak. How does that not make them the 'bad guys?

This post also makes me think about citizenship. Most of the Muslims I know in Oxford are British citizens. It's pretty repugnant to me to think that there are tiers of belonging within citizenship, and that people whose families have acquired citizenship more recently are somehow less British than families who have had it for generations.

It's in that direction that racism rears its ugly head.

I thought that he was bankrupt but for being bailed out by party supporters?

What was Dr Sheikh Ramzy doing at an LWS event?

Why had he taken along a copy of the Koran? Is this something that people commonly carry in the street?

John Pesutto in Australia is almost bankrupt due to losing a defamation case for saying that.

Agree. When KJK went to Australia Neo-Nazis turned up in support of her.

Not a good look at all.

Did you grow up there, or are you an incomer? I studied there.

I’m not arguing that Oxford has no historical multicultural influences. I’m arguing that it belongs more to people who have been there generations than to those who have been there decades. In time, it will belong to their children. I live in a pit village. It’s not mine in the way it’s the home of those whose fathers and grandfathers were down the pit. I’ve been here 25 years. A friend has been here 40. It isn’t ours. We aren’t locals.

I love the tapestry of people and cultures moving around the globe, though it isn’t an area of speciality. I particularly love the Moorish influence in Spain. Empire and influence is really interesting, people taking their culture with them wherever they go, and leaving a little of it behind when they move on.

It does no one any good to deny heritage or culture matters.

Well, it was definitely KJK who wouldn't let Dr Sheikh Ramzy finish his sentence in the Twitter clip I saw. Who assumed that he was anti-woman because he was holding a copy of the Koran, and because he was part of the counter-protest group (ie didn't agree with HER).

I've had some thoughtful, mutually respectful discussions with trans-exclusionary feminists. Nothing I see about KJK makes me think she's genuinely interested in listening or debate. She's a provocateur.

support for her LWS by right wing "keep Britain white" types.

Having these men turning up to support her and waving Union Jack with 'Terf Island' written on them isn't a good look.

Its a religion & ethnicity just like Jews are. Not all Muslims or jews are religious but share a cultural background.

"An ethnicity or ethnic group is a group of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Attributes that ethnicities believe to share include language, culture, common sets of ancestry, traditions, society, religion, history or social treatment.[1][2] Ethnicities are maintained through long-term endogamy[3] and may have a narrow or broad spectrum of genetic ancestry, with some groups having mixed genetic ancestry.[4][5][6] Ethnicity is sometimes used interchangeably with nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism. It is also used interchangeably with race although not all ethnicities identify as racial groups.[7]"

I find KJK scary because she shouts down her opponents rather than trying to engage in dialogue.

If you listen to the footage of the LWS event on you-tube. At times, despite having their own PA, the voices of the LWS women were drowned out completely by the screaming and shouting from meters away, across a road. The protestors achieve this using intimidation, numbers and amplification - are you sure it is KJK that shouts down her opponents?

Don't get me wrong, I don't see feminism as homogenous or monolithic. We don't all agree. That doesn't mean we can't find some points of agreement in common.

I find KJK scary because she shouts down her opponents rather than trying to engage in dialogue. To me, that smacks of fundamentalism.

Words like 'asshole' when addressing a Muslim guy you don't know are not productive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see feminism as homogenous or monolithic. We don't all agree. That doesn't mean we can't find some points of agreement in common.

I find KJK scary because she shouts down her opponents rather than trying to engage in dialogue. To me, that smacks of fundamentalism.

Words like 'asshole' when addressing a Muslim guy you don't know are not productive.

Did you grow up there, or are you an incomer? I studied there.

I’m not arguing that Oxford has no historical multicultural influences. I’m arguing that it belongs more to people who have been there generations than to those who have been there decades. In time, it will belong to their children. I live in a pit village. It’s not mine in the way it’s the home of those whose fathers and grandfathers were down the pit. I’ve been here 25 years. A friend has been here 40. It isn’t ours. We aren’t locals.

I love the tapestry of people and cultures moving around the globe, though it isn’t an area of speciality. I particularly love the Moorish influence in Spain. Empire and influence is really interesting, people taking their culture with them wherever they go, and leaving a little of it behind when they move on.

It does no one any good to deny heritage or culture matters.