Demonstration against Let Women Speak Oxford

Please do tell why Im apparently digging a hole.
I'm replying to someone who seems to disagree but doesn't say what she thinks. Meanwhile a few ladies seem to have got my drift.

For the record, here is the Oxford4trans instagram call to arms

Edited•5d
We're calling on you to help protest anti-trans hate group Let Women Speak from holding a rally this Saturday (18th Oct) at Bonn Sq, Oxford, 12.00pm – 3pm

Their rhetoric is particularly vicious and eliminationist towards trans people, and their more recent output has repeatedly targeted the Muslim community; the group has long held ties to far-right, white nationalist and Nazi groups worldwide, including to Tommy Robinson in the UK

Numbers will be vital to drown out the vitriol and hate here, and make it clear that it is not welcome in our city, so if you feel safe doing so, please attend and share this message widely. Please bring flags, placards, and messages of strength, support and love to help us make it clear that we are united against hatred in all its forms

LWS usually hire “private security” and attracts far-right groups, so please be mindful of your safety first and foremost. We strongly urge you to wear a mask as this group get very personal and may record protesters

Please come support your community and show that the far right is not welcome here!

Contrast that description with what actually happened

• A hundred strong, masked up mob shouted down lone women who came to speak.
• The mob was so whipped up in its own virtue vortex that the police needed to arrest two for public order offences

With that hole your digging, have you come up in Aus yet?

Jeez love, do you scrutinise everybody as much as this, you must be exhausted.
I didn't say the "flag shaggers from the London protest". So no I didn't say the exact same people attended both.
Saying that some undesirables were present at the same time as a LWS event was taking place is not being derogatory to LWS.
"Wild and totally unfounded accusations". No love, it's called an assumption.
Why don't you have a stab at telling me what you're actually trying to say. Because at the moment all you're doing is nit picking.

So she's representing people who wouldn't know a purity spiral if it came up and bit them on the backside. Good for her!

Thank-you for standing up to be counted, I'm sorry that you had to experience this sort of abuse.

The TRA side wore black hats and face masks, many dressed all in black with signs like 'Terfs off our Turf' and loudly singing "there's more of us than you" and other put downs while gesticulating wildly. Some made noise with pots and wooden spoons, there was at least one loudhailer, and very oddly an Imam arrived and appeared to play the conductor to the chanting crowd.

So not there to listen, just to intimidate and drown out other's voices.

Looking at the images I see pretty much all of the protest crowd have adopted a facemasks, hats and scarves chic to hide their identities. The LWS event participants appear the mostly be older women in anoraks.

Once again - not a great optic - a mob of 100 masked 'believers' shouting down lone women when they try to speak. Something that you want to be associated with Green party members? - your leaders seem to think so.

Can someone from the protest supporters explain why the protestors need to hide their identities - surely you'd be happy for others to know your good deeds?

I understand from the report that the police arrested two of the protestors (but later de-arrested one) for,

Section 5 Public Order offence – which concerns the use of threatening, abusive, or disorderly words or behavior, or the display of threatening or abusive writing

Sound like pleasant people.

And none of them are welcome inside mosques as openly gay muslims. They will never be accepted in majority muslim countries.
I do believe there are a tiny number of 'progressive mosques' (that have a female imam, women pray side by side with men. Gays are welcome etc) in some other European countries but I don't believe there are any in the UK at present.
And none of them are accepted by the wider islamic community.

I can't see the point of bringing up the fact that there are gay muslims. It's more ridiculous than pointing out that there are 'muslim feminists'

How many speakers were there?

I arrived about ten minutes late so it had already started. It was surprising how many women were courageous enough to step forward to speak, considering the very large loud obnoxious crowd only feet away from our group. Maybe eight to ten women spoke? Two men as well, both basically saying "of course you are right, thank you for showing me I am not alone"

Imagine how powerful women would be if there weren’t so many women trying to tear others down.

The TRA side wore black hats and face masks, many dressed all in black with signs like 'Terfs off our Turf' and loudly singing "there's more of us than you" and other put downs while gesticulating wildly. Some made noise with pots and wooden spoons, there was at least one loudhailer, and very oddly an Imam arrived and appeared to play the conductor to the chanting crowd.

On the LWS side the women were dressed as they might dress any day, faces on show for anyone to see (imagine!) holding up signs saying 'free speech for women' and flags with the dictionary definition of women, and this small circle of women offered sympathy and understanding to the women who spoke. One speaker was in tears describing her story. She was supported by the others with many hugs and well-wishes. Who are the baddies here?

About the flags, I should add that the other side also used the Union Jack flag, on signs with slogans (tried to read them, couldn't make them out).

The real problem with KJK is that she is low status. Actually, more accurately, she is low status and she doesn't care. She's not interested in anyone else's purity spirals, or, indeed in being pure herself.

Did you actually read Khaled Diab's article or did you just latch onto the title?

That sounds good - I hope you had a good time despite the men trying to silence you and now the (I’m assuming) women trying to smear and discredit the event.

How many speakers were there?

An earlier post on this thread made me laugh a lot - PP said something like ‘far right wing thug cunningly disguised as a 70 year old lady with a Terf Island flag’.

Imagine how powerful women would be if there weren’t so many women trying to tear others down.

OK then, let’s not dispute this one incident, but if it is ever the case that KJK is palling up with Tommy Robinson/Yaxley (accepting that maybe she isn’t but she just really cares about free speech..?) but if she did publicly support him:
Then that is not about ‘unacceptable behaviour on a different topic’. It’s awful because it’s unacceptable behaviour on her very own personal topic of letting women speak. The topic women that women desperately need to talk about together without fear of men shutting them up.

If she were to nail her own colours to an intimidating and potentially violent movement which Robinson/Y-L is all about, then that fucks it at LAWS for a lot of women who would otherwise be interested.
And none of this would matter if anyone centrist or leftist were leading a LAWS equivalent. That is inclusive for all women. But I haven’t seen that being offered. So we do need KJK to continue to provide something that is accessible for all women. This isn’t just about KJK it’s about the context she is working in. Which was why she set up LAWS in the first place.

Then they bring out the false accusations about ‘flag shaggers’. A disgustingly derogatory term if ever I heard one. But perfectly acceptable in the minds of various PPs.

I was there and took some photos. Looking back at them, there were several traditionally coloured Union Jacks with Terf Island on the horizontal stripe. There was one or possibly two in the suffragette colours with no text. To me these both are saying: British Women Standing Up For Their Rights.

We really need a 'laughed my tits off ' emoji at this point .

But that poster is correct. It doesn’t matter how many times you scold, men are not women and aren’t allowed not allowed in female spaces. I know this upsets you but sometimes the truth hurts.

I’m not sure where this ‘inner circle’ claim originated from.

I have just watched the video referred to and TR is filming a roomful of about 40/50 people. He starts on a table where Katie Hopkins, Any Middleton and several others are sat then pans round further past someone and KJK is standing with a Union Jack scarf on. He says “awright darling” and she says “morning” fairly unenthusiastically and puts her thumbs up.

He labelled the video “the A team” in his tweet. He didn’t tag her in it. So have people just made an inference about this ‘inner circle’ comment being claimed or is there actually any evidence?

Purity spiral anyone? This guilt by association is harmful and divisive. It’s just a shame that so many are so keen to ignore the amazing things KJK has done but desperate to berate her for what they deem her unacceptable behaviour on a different topic.

Then they bring out the false accusations about ‘flag shaggers’. A disgustingly derogatory term if ever I heard one. But perfectly acceptable in the minds of various PPs.

Jesus if she’s literally going ‘inner circle’ with Tommy Robinson Yaxley it’s all fucked. Very sad to find that out. That’s not an inclusive politics and she’s totally changed the concept. That’s grim.

Kath is spot on there. But it's not just ideological conformism on the far left. There are a lot of status games involved too, ironically for a group of people who say they want to abolish social class.

There are certain key status markers - an academic job, a seat on the executive of a white collar union, a wee column in the New Statesman, appearances on Radio 4 - and if you don't have one of those you're not worth listening to.

And it's very important to remember that, for this milieu of left wing GC feminists, they are ideologically and socially extremely close to the TRAs. Some have lost work and friendships on a point of principle, and I admire them for that, but ultimately what hurts them is that they've been exiled from their social circle, they'd really like to get back into their social circle, and they'd be happy if they just had permission to dissent on this one thing which is the only thing they really disagree on.

I mentioned the SWP upthread. As it happens, they take a TWAW stance. But what if they didn't? What if Dr Camilla Royle of the SWP Central Committee wanted to attend one of these conferences to discuss her banal views on Engels? Would they roll out the red carpet for her? You bet they would. Because Camilla is an academic who has credentials to talk theory. She isn't some low status woman worried about nonces in toilets.

Problem is you are holding it the wrong way round

😂

I think I'll just leave this here, she's not wrong.
https://x.com/Docstockk/status/1979832463607189834?t=IacLcaGbeI_B6rDlYgXEzw&s=19

there's a small faction of GC feminism - all on far left - that simply can't compute anyone being on stage with someone they disagree with. It blows their tiny minds and keeps the chat groups permanently fuming. They are so limited in understanding of people that the only thing they can infer from it is "secret agreement". The purity attitude also stops them ever getting any proper coverage or engagement themselves because they can't lower themselves to appear with anyone who doesn't share their values, confining them to communicating with silos of others who agree with them - which ultimately drives them extra crazy as they all reinforce mutual delusions. They are obsessed with how things look to others; except they don't understand what other people see when they look at a stage with diverse views on it, projecting only what they themselves see, and driving themselves nuts. It is politically inept, guaranteed to keep them miserable and frustrated, and ultimately quite funny.

Problem is you are holding it the wrong way round, so instead of other people, all you see are your own beliefs, prejuduces and projections bouncing back at you.

Transgenderism in a nutshell really.

Has she expressed a view on him?

All she did when he said she was part of his inner circle was raise her glass of mimosa to the camera — so I guess we’ll never know.

🙄

It's a long long way from done….😬

Your work is done.

So....

Nope. I'm just here to hold up a mirror. It's my 'special' talent. I'll go when my work is done if its any comfort.

Your'e welcome btw….