Demonstration against Let Women Speak Oxford

Standard disclaimer: I do not agree with everything KJK says or does, nor do I have a high opinion of everyone she meets.

Now that's out of the way, let me point out once again that "Stand Up To Racism" is the Socialist Workers Party in a funny hat. The crowd even have those branded "Women Against The Far Right" placards that are produced en masse by the SWP.

I assume most people here are aware of the SWP's track record of covering up the rape of its young female members. It is the nearest thing the UK left has to a grooming gang.

When the lefties on FWR play their guilt by association game, I often ask them how they feel about the unions funding SUTR, or Labour MPs speaking from their platforms. It's not difficult to say "I don't like Tommy Robinson, but the SWP are rapey as fuck and I do not associate with them or their front groups." But lots of lefty feminists are remarkably reluctant to say that, much less to ask their MPs and union officials why they do associate with this outfit.

I agree.
'Racist' just means 'no debate' now. The word is as corrupted as the word 'feminist'.

Oxford is unequivocal: there is no place for antisemitism, harassment, or discrimination within our community.

Except for harassing women who want to speak

Oxford is my city. I am not religious, but Oxford belongs to my Muslim neighbours, my Muslim doctors, my children's Muslim teachers as much as it belongs to any of us who live here. KJK: you are emphatically not welcome here. I'd rather sit down for a cuppa with Sheikh Ramzy over you any day.

I don’t think anyone is saying that Muslims shouldn’t live in East Oxford?

East Oxford is 11% Muslim. I lived there when I was younger and there were many fervently idealistic young people that sounded like you around. I quite liked the smell of evening curries wafting from houses as I walked from the bus stop.

It should be noted that Oxford, particularly East Oxford, is the location of a notorious Pakistani Muslim grooming gang operating out of Cowley Road. There are allegations that due to unaddressed serious failings within police forces that some activity like this continues. I hope your councillor guy is helping to keep an eye and not trying to silence those women as well?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-51467518?app-referrer=deep-link

That's very true; some people in Oxford do support hate speech.

But they're in a minority. Oxford is multicultural and the vast majority of us love it for that reason.

So if people want to pop into the jam-packed city centre on a weekend and listen to an angry woman shout 'asshole' at a well-known local religious leader, who has consistently acted in our city as a dignified voice for moderation and mutual understanding between people of all faiths and none, well then, they should go for it.

But personally I can think of many more productive ways to spend a Saturday. Maybe helping the women in Oxford who really need help. Women who are refugees and asylum seekers, women with substance abuse issues, women seeking shelter from violence, women who can't afford the high cost of food and housing here.

As a woman I feel a helluva lot safer around Max Morris and Sheikh Ramzy than I do around Kellie-Jay Keen.

To quote a statement that Oxford University issued this week, Oxford is unequivocal: there is no place for antisemitism, harassment, or discrimination within our community. That includes anti-Muslim harassment.

KJK is a purveyor of hate speech, end of story. I'm a woman and a feminist and she doesn't speak for me.

I'm a women I can speak for myself.
I'm not a feminist, because the word has been corrupted to the point of uselessness.
I agree with KJK on many things, I don't have to agree with her on everything, if I did that would make me a brainwashed drone.
The points she makes about Islam are valid, calling it 'racist' isn't.

Do you believe only racists oppose some Islamic practices particularly the subjugation of women

Can you explain a bit more clearly why it is racism, any more than "Well, you're preaching from the Bible, so we know you're against women. Asshole," would be?

Unfortunately spanna there IS a strong racist element to Islamophobia. Saying to someone, "Well, you're preaching from the Koran, so we know you're against women. Asshole," is racism. It's hardly a considered critique of the Islamic religion, is it?

KJK: you are emphatically not welcome here.

@cowleycyclist, as much as you say KJK doesn't speak for you, you don't speak for everybody in Oxford either.

Again. Muslim is not a race.

At no point has she made any kind of racist comment.

She is primarily criticising him for being part of the protest against her and then about him literally waving the Koran in her face which you have to admit is very rarely used for the advancement of women’s rights. If ever.

No such thing as race anyway.

Islam is a religion not a race. Criticising Islam is not racist

So it's OK to hurl a racist insult at someone depending on the context then. Right.

This thread is a depressingly vivid illustration of the intersection between trans-exclusionary feminist thinking and right-wing racist thinking.

Oxford is my city. I am not religious, but Oxford belongs to my Muslim neighbours, my Muslim doctors, my children's Muslim teachers as much as it belongs to any of us who live here. KJK: you are emphatically not welcome here. I'd rather sit down for a cuppa with Sheikh Ramzy over you any day.

Oh dear. You voted to give away your rights and those of other women. That was short sighted.

You appear to have conveniently missed the key part of that interaction which is that he turned up and stood on the side of the men protesting against the Let Women Speak event.

Honesty doesn’t seem to be a strong point in your repeated attempts to smear KJK ‘argument’.

She was rather dismissive of his Koran waving as that is literally being used as a tool of oppression for billions of women across the world and he turned up at a high stress situation in the side against her where their credible threats against her life and her family means that she is in a very stressful situation. I think her abruptness is understandable in the circumstances.

If the writings in the Koran are so female friendly, we need to hear a bit more volume from those imams fighting for women’s rights and emancipation - I’m sure they’re out there somewhere? Otherwise it sounds very much like she has a point.

I'm not ignoring that, I didn't suggest that she didn't say it in my post. I'm setting the context. She didn't just walk up to him and say that out of the blue, it was part of a conversation.

Are you conveniently ignoring that he was protesting against women whilst stating he didn't actually know what he was protesting about

And incidentally, Max IS representing me, because I literally voted for them.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that saying to someone, "Well, you're preaching from the Koran, so we know you're against women. Asshole" is a clear instance of kneejerk anti-Muslim sentiment.

Wasn't she berating him for joining with the anti LWS protest and shouting at women?

As a woman and a feminist, I would rather have Max representing me than KJK any day.

You seem to be confused. He is not representing women, he is trying to stop them speaking in public. He would only represent you if you agreed to put the priorities of men like him before the needs of women.

"Well, you're preaching from the Koran, so we know you're against women. Asshole."

That's what KJK says to him in the clip on Twitter. Him holding the Koran means he's against women. That's anti-Muslim sentiment if I ever heard it.

The Bible is against women as well, depending on how you choose to interpret it.

It's possible to be a socially liberal feminist Muslim, just as it's possible to be a socially feminist Christian or Jew.

KJK is a purveyor of hate speech, end of story. I'm a woman and a feminist and she doesn't speak for me.

Repeating this against ‘Muslim’ is not an ethnicity.

I think you’ll find the vast majority of violent men she objects to are white - must if the violent mobs turning up to shit down her events and intimidate women are white. She’s not picky on race.

Are you just taking a scattergun approach to your accusations now? White supremacist, racist, fascist, anti Muslim. All totally unevidenced and unfounded.

You really hate a woman whose mission is to Let Women Speak.

Max Morris is a councillor in East Oxford. Six wards in East Oxford are ranked among the 20% most deprived areas in England. So probably not what most people would picture when you casually throw out the term 'suburban Oxfordshire'.

data.oxfordshire.gov.uk/health-and-social-care/community-insight-profiles/

Your description is a little vague. What is she accusing him of lying about and what is he disagreeing with her on?

I’m not sure how a woman describing a man as a ‘lying piece of shit’ automatically equates to ‘anti Muslim sentiment’, unless you are saying that no woman is allowed to disagree with a man who is Muslim?