High Court rules that a trans man......

The more this guy attempts to argue that
a) we can't distinguish between the two sexes using sex but also that
b) there are behaviours that correlate with two things we know as 'male' or female' (but these aren't sex, because we can't differentiate between the sexes) and we apparently see these as a bimodal distribution the more obvious it is he's on the wind-up.

If there aren't two sexes then none of this is relevant. Behaviours can't be attributed to a sex because you can't tell the sexes apart, changing behaviour or appearance to one that 'is associated with' a sex can't happen because you can't tell the sexes apart. It's just a very very moronic argument that this poster keeps trying to repeat in different ways.

Going back to the OP - does anyone have any information about my earlier question?
I wonder if the gender dysphoria diagnostic criteria - the bits about what toys you like etc - underlies any of the legal intention behind the concept of "living as a gender"? Is there any crossover/reference between the two?

I heard a similar story about a maternity ward getting into a spin because they had a transman with pregnancy problems and all their forms etc assumed that mothers would be female.

I'm usually fairly Live and let live about trans issues, but it does seem to me that if you claim to have been born in the wrong body and to be really a man, you cannot expect accommodations if you then decide to do something that quintessentially only women can do. I felt that that hospital should own its forms and ignore any fuss about them, and I equally feel that this should rule out a GRC. If you claim to have the wrong body then logically you do not want a uterus, and the thought of carrying a child and giving birth should be alien to you.

It is, yet again, clear evidence that what trans people understand by "man" and "woman" and drives their self identification as such is nothing whatsoever to do with the meaning of these words to the rest of the population nor how those the rest of the population live their lives as women or men.

We should stop playing this ridiculous game and simply insist on new lanuage to recognise those personal attributes trans people are currently incorrectly insisting are "women" and "men".

Then they can have the GRCs in the world to recognise their special natures without debasing the language that should unproblematically refer to the real and undeniable existence of sex.

And dumb-clever idiots who think pretending they don't understand what words like "woman" or "biological sex" could ever even mean becasue it's all too complicated can get on with explaining why they shouldn't get a traffic violation for jumping a red light because traffic lights are actually impossible because colour is a spectrum.

And if a dog loses a leg in some sad accident it is no longer a “proper” dog, poor thing 🙁

The interpretation is far from being accepted as legislation or been tested under law to establish precedence.

Is this the precedence that you would like of one protected characteristic (gender reassignment) over another (sex), or were you trying to talk about legal precedents? It's a legal mind field indeed.

All dogs have 4 legs therefore anything that has 4 legs is a dog = TRA logic.

No, it's for you. That you don't understand that it's for you is why you you have come to fallacious conclusion you have

Yikes! It didn’t cross my mind that anyone would think having a baby would improve someone’s mental health!!

The only info I have read about pregnancy and transmen has been how challenging being pregnant is for their gender dysphoria.

My guess is that this young women feels overwhelmed with the ‘loss’ that would accompany the bottom surgery ‘needed’ to treat her gender distress. The simple solution to this is to have children and then bottom surgery!

In terms of those supporting her, wealthy parents have skin in the game if they want to have grandchildren and/or postpone further physical intervention in the hope that she stops believing her issues arise from having a female body. Gender ideologues will support her because it aligns with their thinking that sexual reproduction has nothing to do with one’s sex.

This provides an opportunity for a moment of light relief.

"It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them"...

I fear that if she does have a baby, she will really struggle. If she doesn’t struggle, and finds motherhood rewarding, she may well find her gender distress reduces considerably.

Agreed, however I’m sure you would agree that a baby should not be used an attempt to improve her mental health. It’s a very high risk strategy for her and the baby. I guess in this case, it’s not actually being used to improve her mental health as everyone egging her on is pretending she hasn’t got mental health issues?

Who are these medical ghouls helping this girl harm herself so much?

The patience some of the regular posters here never fails to astound me.

You are honestly amazing.

Are any of you teachers or in education? You should be!
Teaching requires herculean levels of patience, due to being faced with obstinate little people who make it their mission to argue the toss even though they know deep down they are wrong, and the main purpose of their contrariness is just to wind you up.

I think a particular poster may still be locked in this stage of development.

Thank you.

I hope we can all ignore the desperate attempts to derail.

It is also very concerning that a 21 yr old has already had a single mastectomy which obviously precludes breastfeeding yet now is desperate to conceive.

If you were if sound mind and planning to have a baby, amputation of your breasts to remove the healthiest food source for baby should not have been considered.

Education and indoctrination-wise, she will have been at school at the height of the activism and lies in schools. Schools actively incentivising trans identities by giving celebration assemblies, activist teachers seemingly trying to encourage trans identification to burnish their cool Stonewall credentials (that’s all gone a bit quiet now, I wonder how many schools are still proud ‘gold standard allies’ or whatever the prize was).

In the kindest possible way, I hope her fertility journey is not yet successful. She does not sound remotely mentally ready for the huge responsibility of a child.

I suspect she may be thinking that once she has children, then she can fully be a man and this will fix the issues that are distressing her.

Many young people I work with create narratives whereby all of the issues they have are because they are not the sex they should be and transitioning will fix this. Of course it doesn’t and the issues carry forward.

It is very concerning that this young women is planning on being a single parent. The demands of looking after an infant on your own, especially the sleep deprivation, is a risk factor for poor mental health.

I fear that if she does have a baby, she will really struggle. If she doesn’t struggle, and finds motherhood rewarding, she may well find her gender distress reduces considerably.

"because HE is trying to conceive"

He is just wasting his and everyone esle's time thern.

Perhaps he is expecting a miracle birth

This ⬆️

Aha! The DSD gotcha moment....

Except it's not a gotcha at all.

Semenya and others with the DSD known as 45 XY 5ARD were incorrectly observed to be female at birth, because their penis didn't grow until puberty. External genital development is the final stage of reproductive development in the fetus and, with this particular DSD, it's in this final stage that fetal development goes off track from the norm. The additional surge in testosterone that males get during puberty is enough to allow the penis to grow, but by then the incorrect observation that they were female was then recorded on their birth certificate.

By contrast, the transman in this thread was correctly observed to be and recorded as female at birth. How do I know this?

1. this person has female reproductive organs. The first evidence of this would have been starting menstruation. Without menstruation having started, it would be impossible to become pregnant - and this case is about someone who expects to be pregnant (I'm going to assume the transman in question is correct that this would be physically possible, and isn't just a man bringing Loretta's wish for the right for men to give birth out of Monty Python and into real life)
2. a GRC has been requested to make a change from female to male in the public record. The only reason for this request is if the public record currently says that this person is female.

Well said - this is the key issue, not the derailing about a man's insistence on accessing the women's toilets.

This is yet another example of how mentally vulnerable the young women caught up in all this are. Presumably she's got the money (or access to the powerful with money) to pursue this court case.

But every time these cases come up, they expose just how unwell so many of these young women are - and how easy it is for them to be exploited by others.

The concept of living as a woman or man is ridiculous and should be dispensed with. The problem with the GNC however is that it is used maliciously to efface biological sex and access services and spaces not intended for the holder. The current TRA gambit is simply to not comply with the law and use ambiguity and mas-disobedience to disestablish sex a meaningful category. In that the GNC plays a critical role.

So, the unfortunate situation is that the judge ruled correctly but it does indeed play into the TRAs' hands.

Ignoring the grammatically incorrect statement that "femininity" is an action - it's a noun, not a verb - I think we're coming to a consensus here:

Yes, it's a performance. A series of behaviours that can be performed or enacted in a particularly way.

(Feminine = adjective. A word to describe a noun

Femininity = noun)

This whole situation is odd. Why is she undergoing IVF at age 21? Normally fertility issues aren’t diagnosed until after several years of trying for a baby, much less jumping straight to the very expensive IVF,

She appears to have been taking testosterone - I’m guessing that has messed with her ovulation but two miscarriages is a concern - has the testosterone damaged her reproductive system so she can’t carry a baby to term?

Why is such a young woman so focused on having a baby that she is going to such lengths despite serious mental issues and no partner? Where did the GLP find her? Was she groomed into this by activists?

One thing I think everyone on this board will agree on - we don't have the foggiest idea what is meant by 'CIS female'. Is it an action? An adjective? An adverb? Who knows?

Comprehension fail indeed.

What part of "most female thing you can do" seems like an action & not being?
Context matters...

I think some men enjoy the attention. 🙄