EHRC deletes single-sex space guidance amid trans rights legal case

On the ground, this is why the nonsense occurs.

Stating that people should be permitted to use single sex provision in line with their gender is as meaningful as saying a conference is open to researchers who have published peer reviewed papers and people who regard themselves as intellectual.

Leaving aside activists and those who are on top of the issues, most organisations, having been told that sex and gender identity should be understood as being synonymous, will continue to do so unless told otherwise. This will not help them in any way if they face a legal challenge, and they are foolish to do so, but I think that’s where they are.

Yes and no (and I'm just as frustrated as you are btw) People are talking about it now and in the end, they do have the power. Darlington nurses and Graham Linehan and Sandie Peggie are cutting through far more outside the bubble of the 8% of people who are so-called 'progressive activists' So, ironically are the demonstrations and the charmers who were threatening to relieve themselves on the floor and vandalising buildings. I'm down in the South West, in an area which isn't political at all, and the dog walkers have been talking about it and they are NOT happy. Even the confirmed Lib Dems aren't happy about the lack of debate at the Conference. I've been stirring happily by telling them about the dafter bits of the Sandie Peggie tribunal, and my day was made by the retired midwife who said that in 40 years she'd never seen a baby she couldn't identify right away. Imagine steam coming out of her ears...

They are fighting back, of course they are. They've lied and snided (is that a word? If not it ought to be) all the way through. Maybe it's in their DNA? I'm not a doctor so I wouldn't know, but the tide is turning.

Yes, the website's atrocious. And everyone will carry as before because they might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb. And not even that: more like being hanged for a sheep instead of a very very slightly smaller sheep. And everything will be delayed and delayed by politicking and then maybe get watered down. I'm beginning to despair. No-one in power is actively on our side.

Here's a snippet to prove I didn't dream it....

The proposed changes to the 2011 code are still live links on the consultation page. The website's a bugger, but I think it's all there...

Just nine days after the ruling, the EHRC issued guidance stating that trans people could not use toilets which align with their acquired gender

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TOILET WHICH MATCHES YOUR GENDER, ALL GENDERS ARE IMAGINARY, YOU EEJITS.

It has been withdrawn so cant be ignored.

Did you mean the interim guidance can be ignored? But that was always true because it hadn't been approved by parliament (supposedly, Phillipson was annoyed at them for posting it).

Anyone who was inclined to follow the interim guidance is also free to follow the draft new code if they want to. Neither would give them any comfort though, unlike the approved version. If we ever get it 😠

OK the page where the code is downloadable says it's 'now out of date in various respects', which is a little low-key. I would have preferred a skull-and-crossbones and a klaxon.....

The new draft has also been published, which is kind of a hint to ignore the 2011 code. I think @Heggettypeg 's explanation makes sense. Also I think the EHRC website says the 2011 code is out-of-date (I will check)

It makes a kind of sense, I think:
The law is the law- now, and people should be obeying it - now. Normal practice would be to obey the law and take legal advice if you're not sure what the law is saying.

But since this is a tricky area, the custom has been to help people out by issuing illustrative guidelines. A sort of FAQ. But the guidelines aren't the law, they're just the EHRC being helpful. The law would exist even if there weren't any guidelines.

The 2011 guidelines are out of date in some respects but weren't retired immediately because the new Interim guidelines were just that- a quick and dirty update. (Perhaps there was stuff in the old guidelines that hadn't altered and was still useful?). That was ok if you had a short term situation, and one where people were being sensible and co-operative and using the Interim update where appropriate.

But it's gone on and on. The government haven't got on with signing off the new complete guidelines; and lots of people who should know better are abusing the Interim status of the update and the existence of the out of date guidelines to drag their heels and ignore the law.

So the EHRC have effectively said that until the proper current guidelines are issued, you are on your own with the law (just as you are with other legal matters where Guidelines are not usually issued). And you need to obey the law now.
And if the Government wants organisations to have guidelines to help them (which is cheaper and more efficient than having to consult a lawyer about typical situations), then it needs to get on and approve them.

That's my take, anyhow. I may be wrong.

I posted this on your other thread:

The updated code of practice is accurate and comprehensive guidance on how services, public functions and associations should comply with the Equality Act and supersedes all previous guidance from the EHRC. This includes the 2011 code of practice which the EHRC is calling for the minister to revoke as of now. The EHRC has also removed the interim update from its website that was published after the Supreme Court's judgment. Duty-bearers should continue to take specialist legal advice, as they did before, on what they need to do under equality and human rights law. They should use the new code once Parliament has approved it.
I think they're saying the draft code is correct so FFS get on and approve it/revoke the 2011 code. Meanwhile duty-bearers are on their own, or can consult their lawyers, fwiw.
It's a hissy fit.

__

It's confusing, but I think they're saying the current draft code is definitive as far as they're concerned. So if HMG won't approve it, there's nothing. A howling void.

Meant to link to this - https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

Given Reform are heading for an absolute majority - no.

I'm fuming that Philipson is stalling this to help her deputy leadership challenge.

Is there a chance the law could get amended if the anti women parties, Greens, Lib Dem get more MPs at next GE?

Looks like we are in for a long fight to even get a Supreme Court judgement implemented because it supports women's sex based rights, and men (whether TRAs or MRAS) dont want women to have their rights as women upheld by the legal system.

Bring it on <polishes gardening implements>

Impact assessment - impact on trans people. Government is looking for a get out. It doesn't want to go down in history as having breached human rights and so even though Starmer has sometimes verbally endorsed the idea, he now wants to distance labour from it and throw EHRC under the bus and Labour will probably save face by replacing Starmer.

I wondered if it could be related to Baroness Falkner's contract ending. She finishes on 30th November. She may not care about challenging the government if she is on her way out as they've treated her quite shoddily.

Then again in cynical mode...

This is 2025 so they can of course just ignore the law. Tell other people to ignore the law and just arrest anyone who complains.

So we're not out of the woods yet.