UnHerd: Why are fewer young people identifying as trans?

I would - in an ideal world - ban all cosmetic surgery other than things like pinning back sticky-out ears, or removing large facial growths.

I would do this for many many reasons.

I saw this on Twitter and have now read the UnHerd piece and agree that this appears to be about non-binary ID only. Which personally I believe to be the preserve of the privileged.

It also had data about sexuality, showing homosexuality and heterosexuality both being stable but the various varieties of queer experiencing the spike and decline corresponding to non-binary identity. Referring to the point I made earlier, the data is not great , in part because the thing it measures is not really a thing. But Kaufman is aware of its limitations and makes a strong case that the data does indeed say what he says it does.

Also worth noting that those casting aspersions on it are not well known for their intellectual integrity or analytical rigour, e.g. our own howie and Erin Reed.

I saw this on Twitter and have now read the UnHerd piece and agree that this appears to be about non-binary ID only. Which personally I believe to be the preserve of the privileged.

We know in this country Blackpool (home of the largest % of looked-after children, I believe) has the highest numbers of children referred to gender clinics. I’m going to posit that those children don’t end up at elite universities, or any university for that matter.

I think that non-binary, which is 100% a trend, is dying a welcome death. Kids are fed up with these narcissistic bullying attention-seeking drama llamas telling them what to do and say. Obviously the grown ups have been rolling their eyes about them for a long time, and more so when it’s adults pretending they’re not male or female.

But I don’t think this means what Kaufman says it means.

There was a terrible news story last year about a couple of unspeakable idiots who had 4-year-old boy / girl twins.
The girl didn’t like having long hair, dresses & ‘pretty shoes’ - she wanted to have short hair & comfy clothes like her brother. So these idiots decided she must be a boy.
People like that shouldn’t be allowed to keep their children.

I disagree. There have always been people who crossdress. The case for gender dysphoria having always existed (as opposed to persecution for being homosexual) is much weaker. And the concept of 'gender' vs. sex is entirely modern.

There will be an underlying number because there have always been trans individuals, documented 200 years ago and continued long before the internet existed but small in numbers, the fashion seems to be changing though, thankfully it’s so slow to get surgery in the uk, few will have received it from the “bulge” years, my dn has only just had second surgery despite coming out over 10 years ago to medical profession and told his family aged 3 years old that he wasn’t a girl!

adults going through gender transition, often going through several years of psychological and hormone therapy before actual gender reassignment

My/our concerns are about children undergoing medical and surgical procedures without appropriate investigation beforehand.

someone just going to have leg lengthening or breast enlargement or facial reconstruction to look like their favorite movie star

Most people would consider at least two of these examples unusual, unwise and extreme. “Just”?

no one is complaining about all of these other people having body mutilations spending an estimated nearly $57 billion in all of 2024

I don’t think it’s true that no one is concerned or complaining, but if the people concerned are adult, uncoerced and it’s legal, not much can be done about it, nor will it in what seems to be an unregulated market.

Yes a few regret it, like any elective procedure, which is why it's a process over several years that includes a psychological analysis

Except where this is emphatically not the case, especially when it involves children.

Shame we can't do the same with people having children - it's embarrassing.

What a surprising remark on a parenting website.

All the data around the trans issue is shoddy, including what even is trans (or non-binary). I agree that a degree of caution is warranted. BUT, the data is longitudinal, and it appears that it is measuring something.

I was reading his responses on Nitter and there were a lot of bits that seemed shoddy. NB identities do seem to have gone down on his figs, but he said the rest was based on assumptions that, with a single M/F option for who the responder was, "most" transpeople would give the gender with which they identified. But no basis for that given.
It would be wonderful and not even surprising if trans identities are falling out of fashion amongst those most likely to be harmed by them, but I'd like the research a bit more robust.

My DD does this hopefully grow out of it shes only 11 and at a crucial point when she got her periods at 10 and was freaked out a school friend told her about his sister who is now a boy. She is also awaiting assessment think it’s very common for these kids to go through as they start to realise they are different. I was freaked out and very upset but not so much now that the tide is well a truly turning.

No worries. Same. And its important to note the bloke who wrote the article (Ben Ryan) isn't exactly known for his pro trans position.

The annoying part is like all misinformation it gets seen by millions of people & regurgitated & never corrected.

Thanks for sharing this breakdown of the actual data and issues. Very frustrating how easy it is to just lie about data now and how few people question it as long as it matches their world view (myself included, I initially ignored this thread because I believe there are trans people and dislike the vitriol this board often spews against them)

It's such a thankless job for people to make sure that they know what is acceptable and not for today's society, since people who don't fit within the "norms" can be ostracized from the rest of the masses. BTW the numbers posted aren't correct because medical professionals who support adults going through gender transition, often going through several years of psychological and hormone therapy before actual gender reassignment, don't always publish them to protect their patient privacy. So it's a lot harder to go through the process than someone just going to have leg lengthening or breast enlargement or facial reconstruction to look like their favorite movie star. But again, no one is complaining about all of these other people having body mutilations spending an estimated nearly $57 billion in all of 2024. But when it comes to gender dysmorphia, we have experts that know better than those adults who are finally at peace feeling much better once their transition has been done. Yes a few regret it, like any elective procedure, which is why it's a process over several years that includes a psychological analysis. Shame we can't do the same with people having children - it's embarrassing.

https://benryan.substack.com/p/no-the-data-hasnt-shown-that-transgenderism

That is just incredibly heart breaking. Surgeons performing these mutilations should be struck off. Sociopaths every one of them.

Oh good, so they're not trans at all, just normal tomboys. Wish I could have worn trousers at school!

Very noticeable in the school where I work.
We still have girls who wear the boy’s uniform, have short hair etc but they tend to keep their female names. So good to see.

I keep thinking of the girl I saw at a music festival with her back to me, dancing around in front of her friends, a bit drunk, holding her shirt wide open while they laughed and cheered. Being much older, I smiled indulgently and thought luckily she was safe with her friends.

Was she hell. She danced round and I saw she wasn't exposing her breasts but two horrible scars where she'd had them amputated. I could have wept. I keep thinking of her funny tipsy joy, and her stupid friends egging her on.

I hope to god she had nothing worse done. I hope every surgeon involved in this shit show is struck off for life.

I think of it as a fashion . It seemed very prevalent/ on the rise when my dc were at school. Around 2017 / 2018.

It was a way to rebel against parents and possibly teachers. School uniform was way stricter than when I was at school in the 80s, so how do you rebel?

Back in the day the punks were the rebels, then they were seen as part of British culture. The same with mods and rockers before that.

No shit Sherlock

It's horrific how much damage gender ideology has caused. I hope those who promoted it feel ashamed when the harm done to young people becomes widely apparent.

I’m pleased to see that this is happening, but I feel the article wasn’t written particularly well.

The author clearly wants to frame it as a fad (I’m not disagreeing), but fails to robustly back the idea up. By not addressing other potential reasons for lowering rates he’s leaving himself open to criticism. He ought to have steelmanned the opposing position and disproved the other factors that might be at play.

Two off the top of my head:

1. the climate feels less welcoming to gender questioning youth in the USA. Some teens who might otherwise have explored alternate gender identities no longer feel comfortable doing so.
2. Gender clinics have closed or laws have been changed which make transition more difficult. Therefore fewer young people have the opportunity to progress through them.

There’s obviously a social contagion aspect but presenting a speculative argument as to the cause of the fall in numbers isn’t good evidence and it won’t change any minds.

Yep. Teens now are enormously scathing about it all. A few years of forced Stonewall indoctrination led to a big backlash here.

"Democratic, trans and queer individuals appear to be more “woke” than straight people."

LGBTQID?

The best way to put kids off a religion is to ram it down their throats in school. Some will stay believers but many will rebel.

I’ve seen this with the grandsprogs: they’re so over it! The eyerolls when someone ‘non-binary’ is mentioned!

i feel immensely sorry for those permanently harmed by this fad.