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WorriedMutha · 13/10/2025 15:28

The vote for deputy leader ends on 23rd so if she is prevaricating until then so be it. I voted for Bridget but Lucy looks to be ahead as Bridget has been cursed by being annointed as the preferred number 10 candidate. There's enough gnashing and wailing by the membership to thus favour Lucy. In any event, Bridget's hands will be untied on 24th and hopefully she will lay the guidelines before Parliament. Even if a debate is forced, at least the squirming cowardly MPs will be flushed out and I'm pretty sure the guidelines will pass. I think a lot of MPs will have urgent dental appointments that day.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/10/2025 14:13

TiredOldHen · 13/10/2025 14:12

I understand Philipsons decision. As soon as the guidance is released the wailing and howling of TRAs will be deafening and Philipson will be held responsible by all of them. The Labour Party is quite evenly divided on this issue and so her chances will plummet to nil. I think she will stand up to the TRAs but has taken the pragmatic decision that a couple more weeks won’t make any real difference to women’s rights when we’ve been waiting years, but could potentially make a big difference between having a full on handmaiden influencing the party and govt going forward or someone sane. Don’t shoot me but I think it’s the right decision.

Oh I get the logic, like 100%. it's just when you are waiting for that guidance to help your own daughter.... anyway. Politics are politics.

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TiredOldHen · 13/10/2025 14:12

I understand Philipsons decision. As soon as the guidance is released the wailing and howling of TRAs will be deafening and Philipson will be held responsible by all of them. The Labour Party is quite evenly divided on this issue and so her chances will plummet to nil. I think she will stand up to the TRAs but has taken the pragmatic decision that a couple more weeks won’t make any real difference to women’s rights when we’ve been waiting years, but could potentially make a big difference between having a full on handmaiden influencing the party and govt going forward or someone sane. Don’t shoot me but I think it’s the right decision.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/10/2025 14:08

https://archive.ph/iinEr

The Times Editorial

"Ministers must not delay single-sex guidance"

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BellissimoGecko · 13/10/2025 13:09

PrettyDamnCosmic · 13/10/2025 13:01

Even greater insanity from that unnamed MP. The Labour Party Deputy Leader is elected by a secret ballot of the members so even if the MP voted for her there is no way of their TRA constituents discovering that they voted for Phillipson.

Thank you for clarifying that. I don’t know.

So, virtue signalling for the sake of it…

PrettyDamnCosmic · 13/10/2025 13:01

BellissimoGecko · 12/10/2025 20:29

Insanity. In the article:

One MP said: “I back Bridget, but if this guidance is published before the vote closes there’s no way I can vote for her. I’ve got a big LGBT community in my constituency and I’d never get their vote again.”

But about women’s vote???! Surely he has a ‘big female community’ in his constituency too?? 🙄🙄🙄

Even greater insanity from that unnamed MP. The Labour Party Deputy Leader is elected by a secret ballot of the members so even if the MP voted for her there is no way of their TRA constituents discovering that they voted for Phillipson.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 13/10/2025 12:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/10/2025 12:36

Ben Cooper’s paper is very clear and a good one to share with organisations.

Ben Cooper’s paper is so clear in explaining how the SC judgment does not remove, diminish or breach the rights and protections of "trans people" that when I posted it on Transgender UK on Reddit I got permanently banned.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/10/2025 12:36

Ben Cooper’s paper is very clear and a good one to share with organisations.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/10/2025 12:36

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/10/2025 11:00

It means Powell is a numpty who doesn't understand how the legal system works.

She’s never struck me as one of the Labour Party’s great intellects.

Another2Cats · 13/10/2025 12:16

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/10/2025 10:28

@Another2Cats got a link for that tweet? I'd like to send him my own thread about girls being made to change with boys because the school is waiting for that guidance...

It's from a paper he wrote back in July

For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers:
Why the Supreme Court’s judgment does not remove, diminish or breach the
rights and protections of trans people

The bit that I copied and pasted is paras 134 and 135 right at the very bottom

https://oldsquare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/FWS-Why-the-SC-decision-does-not-breach-trans-rights.pdf

In case you're wondering, Oldsquare is the name of the chambers where Ben Cooper is Deputy Head.

https://oldsquare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/FWS-Why-the-SC-decision-does-not-breach-trans-rights.pdf

Grammarnut · 13/10/2025 11:34

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

Edited

No. Equalities Minister is a non-job because it's mostly about women. Being Deputy Leader is a proper job because it is usually held by a man and though it is not a stepping stone to leadership it is better than any job that has women as its focus. The same goes for Education, btw, except that Gove and Gibbs used it as a fightback against woolly thinking in our schools and succeeded, introducing proper teaching. But a Labour politician can't do that because 'progressive' so teaching children to actually read is less important than teaching them about DIE.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/10/2025 11:00

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

It means Powell is a numpty who doesn't understand how the legal system works.

Floisme · 13/10/2025 10:55

I feel lukewarm, at best, towards Bridget Phillipson. But if that article is correct when it states that several Labour MPs are afraid to vote for her, then I think it says more about the state of the party then it does about her.

Shortshriftandlethal · 13/10/2025 10:44

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

Edited

Yes, but the symbolism of persisting with the TWAW line is not a progressive one. Electing Powell would give succour to those who can't and won't accept the supreme court ruling and all it implies.

DworkinWasRight · 13/10/2025 10:42

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

I think it means that Powell is an idiot.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/10/2025 10:28

@Another2Cats got a link for that tweet? I'd like to send him my own thread about girls being made to change with boys because the school is waiting for that guidance...

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Another2Cats · 13/10/2025 08:50

Sorry, just to add to the above, even if the Labour government were to reject the guidance it still wouldn't have any effect on the law. At least, according to Ben Cooper KC (he represented Sex Matters at the For Women Scotland case in the Supreme Court).

He said:

It has been drawn to my attention that a number of commentators on social
media (which I avoid) have suggested that the implications of the Supreme Court’s decision in FWS are in some way unclear and/or that they do not take effect until the Equality and Human Rights Commission (‘EHRC’) publishes its final updated guidance taking account of that decision. Consequently, there seems to have been some encouragement to service providers, employers and other duty bearers to do nothing in response to the Supreme Court’s judgment and to await the EHRC’s guidance.

Duty bearers would be ill-advised to follow such encouragement. All duty
bearers should understand the following points (which really ought not to need
stating, and certainly ought to be obvious to any lawyer):

The Supreme Court’s decision in FWS as to the meaning of ‘sex’ in the EA 2010 determines what the law is, and always has been.

It is the Supreme Court, and not the EHRC, that authoritatively determines the law. The EHRC’s role is to provide guidance to assist people to understand and comply with their rights and obligations under the EA 2010; its role is not to determine the law or to interpret the EA 2010 (see Grosset v City of York Council [2018] ICR 1492, CA, §42 per Sales LJ; §68 per Arden LJ).

Therefore, if a service provider, employer or other duty bearer is currently following policies or practices that, in consequence of the Supreme Court’s decision in FWS, are unlawful under the EA 2010, it will be no defence to any claim against them to say that they are awaiting guidance from the EHRC.

So, for example, if a service provider is currently operating a service or facility for women based on a ‘trans inclusive’ definition of ‘woman’, they will be exposing themselves to a serious risk of (i) claims for direct sex discrimination by men who are excluded from that service; and/or (ii) claims for indirect sex discrimination by women who are put at a particular disadvantage by the undermining of their sex-based protections that the admission of men who identify as women into the service is likely to represent.

Easytoconfuse · 13/10/2025 08:44

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

It means she wants to be deputy leader and isn't too bothered about the truth. I'm not saying anything else!

Imbrocator · 13/10/2025 08:43

I can see why she’s doing it but if it’s something she believes in then surely she’d be better off getting it done and dusted rather than risk the chance that her competitor could put barriers in the way.

Another2Cats · 13/10/2025 08:35

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

"Isn't it law already?"

No, not yet. How it becomes law is the opposite of how most things work in parliament.

Things like this guidance (and Statutory Instruments ("SIs") etc) normally don't get voted on but are "laid" before Parliament for 40 days.

Once that has been done the only way that it will not become law after the end of the 40 days is if a motion to annul is made by an MP or a member of the House of Lords.

If that happens and quite a number of MPs sign it then it will be debated and voted on. If the vote goes against then the guidance will be annulled.

Although, just for context, the last time that an SI was annulled by the House of Lords was in the year 2000 and by the House of Commons was in 1979.
.

"Are they allowed to change it?"

No, they are not allowed to change it. They can only accept it or reject it.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 13/10/2025 08:33

I dont think they can change the guidance, they would have to change the law.

They'd have to define trans. They cannot define it as changing sex, so maybe would have to rewrite the EqA to include 'and trans' everytime sex is mentioned?

Igmum · 13/10/2025 08:30

It is law already. My understanding is that the EHRC code of practice (interpreting the existing law) doesn’t have to be voted on and will simply pass. If any Labour loons are crazy enough to dig it out and try to change it not only does that not change the law but they’re also doing Nigel Farage’s job for him.

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

IwantToRetire · 12/10/2025 23:05

IwantToRetire · 12/10/2025 21:00

But always good to have FWR thread title like this for search engines to pick up on. Grin