Woman in men's rugby and misleading journalism

She's retired from elite women's rugby however. So the question is, could she find a women's team, where she lives, playing at the correct level for a retired elite player?

She could play in any women’s competition at the highest level available. It’s not difficult. It doesn’t matter that she would be better than everyone, it’s still what should happen. Like I said, lots of men retire and play for their team at a level that’s beneath their actual ability and they may or may not be too good for that level but still do it anyway.

I just don't see it as that unusual for women and girls playing at very high levels of the women's game, in a sport where there are more men's teams all round, to sometimes play on men's teams.

It’s extremely unusual for this to happen post puberty in a contact sport. If it happens in contact sports after puberty it shouldn’t, regardless of how common you might think it is.

I think the question is could she find a woman's team, local to her, where she wouldn't dominate?

But so what if she does? It will be safe and fair. She’s a woman dominating other women in that scenario.

The men won't be as skilled, but they will challenge her skill, if that's what she is looking for.

If she wants to challenge her skills she could play touch. This threatens her safety. I’m not sure why that’s hard to understand.

I think the question is could she find a woman's team, local to her, where she wouldn't dominate?

The men won't be as skilled, but they will challenge her skill, if that's what she is looking for.

I think someone like the captain of the Canadian women's team, if she wants to spend a couple of years playing professional men's hockey, and can get drafted, should be allowed to do so.

And since she's been retired some years now, if she wants to play on a men's old-timer team, given that there aren't nearly as many for women, that should be fine too.

I'm not sure why there would be any benefit to anyone to disallow that.

We all know it's unusual.And fundamentally it's nothing to do with gender ideology, and it wasn't when it happened 20 or 40 years ago either.

She's retired from elite women's rugby however. So the question is, could she find a women's team, where she lives, playing at the correct level for a retired elite player?

I just don't see it as that unusual for women and girls playing at very high levels of the women's game, in a sport where there are more men's teams all round, to sometimes play on men's teams.

In the past it's never been taken as meaning that women's teams shouldn't exist,or should be open to men, or even that it is very common for women to do this. It's just pragmatic.

Given the fact that it seems like she maybe isn't even really trying to "live as a man" or insisting on male address or anything like that, this doesn't seem to me to be any differernt than other scenarios where this has happened from time to time. It's just the spin the article is placing on it.

Then you will simply take away the opportunity to participate in sport at all. In my sport (cycling) if you didn’t allow women to race in the open category then you would pretty much halve the number of races they had access to compared to men. That’s not equality.

Most men I know have a horror of even accidentally hurting a woman. When I played mixed 5-a-side football just for fun, you could see the men immediately change their behaviour when against a woman with the ball, versus a man. It could be a little annoying, I'm female, not 8 years old!

I do worry that she will get badly hurt, and the man responsible will then have to live with the guilt. The alternative is that the opposing team try their very best to treat her with kid-gloves, but that's not ideal either.

There does seem to be a very strong streak of selfishness running through most people who choose to "transition'. No thought for the reasonable concerns of others or any willingness to compromise.

@Wowthatwasabigstep it's not professional rugby. She a retired international playing for a local club side. And of course she won't have any claim should be injured - any more than any other player has a claim. The rules are very clear.

Yet another attention seeking ignoramus brainwashed by the Trans Cult. A woman calls herself a man, despite being a woman and wants to play against men in professional rugby….is this so that when she is inevitably injured she can attempt to make a claim for the injuries sustained in this increasingly litigious world.

She would be better to focus her energies on addressing her clearly concerning delusion's that have lead her to believe that she can change her sex.

No, I don’t think that’s accurate at all. Ellie Kildunne is the world’s best women’s player and when younger, played with boys. She couldn’t play with men now.

Lots of retired elite players play club rugby at a level they’re comfortable with. They don’t all have to play at elite level or top grade. Green could and should play with other women. She’s not playing with the Convicts because of skill level, she will be a lot better skilled than them, she’s playing with them because they’re willing to overlook the safety element for the sake of inclusion.

You really think Ellia wants to play in a women's team? But just can't find one?

No, Ellia wants the validation of playing in a men's team, with everyone pretending she's actually a man.

Yes, so really, it sounds to me like this situation is neither that unusual, nor worrisome, and actually has nothing to do with gender, as much as the story is trying to make it about that.

It's about a woman retired from elite rugby who has found a team of mostly men is now the best fit for her skill level. Chances are there isn't a woman's team available that's appropriate.

You do, Ellie Killdunne (fullback of the Red Roses) played with Keighly Albion which like many RFL clubs doesn't have a women's side.

Getting a TUE for testosterone replacement therapy is hard - players need to have medicals with independent doctors and demonstrate pathologically low testosterone levels outside of the normal range. TUEs are only generally issued for transdermal gels, not for any injectable therapy. If transdermal gels were PEDs, every meathead down the gym would be using them rather than injecting.

Cycling doesn't have the biggest drug problem of any sport - far from it. Just check the ban list at UKADA: https://www.ukad.org.uk/sanctions

Men will be allowed to play at the highest levels of Women’s Rugby in the Netherlands, courtesy of the Dutch Rugby Association. I presume they get full access to flash and peep in the changing rooms too.

https://nltimes.nl/2025/09/24/trans-women-allowed-dutch-womens-rugby-new-inclusivity-policy

“Our goal is for no one to feel excluded in our sport. With this policy we are combining inclusivity with the responsibility and fairness. We are working on a rugby community in which everyone can be themselves, in and outside of the field”. said Friso Horstmeier, chairman of the Dutch Rugby Association.

They are pure weasel words, aren’t they? Probably tried to not snigger outright at the parading of pure misogyny as ‘inclusive’, or ‘fair’ in anyway to women. Does ‘outside of the field’ mean the changing rooms? Is old Friso there admitting that the lads are being indulged and enabled to flash and peep on unconsenting women and girls, if they are so inclined. After they get a chance to bash women on the field. That may be the price of women being ‘included’ in women’s rugby.

Due to Lewis Moody's recent diagnosis of MND its been all over the news that professional rugby players* are 15 times more likely than the general population to get MND. This is thought to be due to concussion and head injuries.

A woman playing rugby against men has a much higher risk of concussion and injury than if she were playing against women so does this mean thar Ellia will have a risk of getting MND more than 15 times higher than the gen pop.

*I'm not sure if the reported risk is for male players or all players and I don't know if they have looked at the male and female risk factors separately

As a winger, being small is not necessarily a disadvantage if you are able to outpace and dodge the opposition, but she I doubt she will have the upper body strength to fend off tacklers or break out of tackles the way a small man could.

It does look like the club wants to play to win so it would be interesting to see how often she is selected to play for either the 1st or 2nd team. There doesn't seem to be anything about her on their website.

I find it hard to believe that many of the men in the team are happy with this scenario.

If it's an "inclusive" team I'm sure they'll be basking in the glow of their virtuous brownie points.

If I were in charge of an opposing team, I would take into account her strengths (possibly faster and fitter, more skilful, experience of higher level rugby) and weaknesses (possible lack of bulk, height, weight, slower twitch muscle reactions) and adapt my tactics accordingly. Within the rules, obviously.

They don’t need to be elite male rugby players in order to do her some serious damage on the pitch

Indeed. They'll need to dial right back during tackles. It's entirely possible that being of a lower league skillset will hinder their knowledge of how to do this while still contributing effectively to the game.

Even in an inclusive club, I share this sentiment:

I find it hard to believe that many of the men in the team are happy with this scenario.

And this:

It’s also not fair on her opponents. A man could inflict a serious injury on a woman by hitting with forces another man would tolerate. Who is liable in that regard?

Yes the club is inclusive, but they've implicitly demanded that anyone playing them either a) sets aside safety and fairness or b) prioritises the inclusion of an opposite-sex player as if it's somehow a better version of both of these.

They don’t need to be elite male rugby players in order to do her some serious damage on the pitch, the fact that she’s played formerly at the top level with other women will not prevent her from being injured. I’ve read about her before and she clearly has some serious mental health issues. I find it hard to believe that many of the men in the team are happy with this scenario.

She wouldn't stand a chance at elite men's level, she doesn't have larger lungs like the fellas either, so apart from injury she wouldn't have the stamina.