Hampstead ponds

Two of the three women I have met who go or have gone regularly to the Ladies Pond have said they welcome being able to sunbathe topless without male attention, put in more blunt terms though.

It is particularly ridiculous as an option because one of the fabulous freedoms of the Ladies Pond is that traditionally women have sunbathed topless or naked free of the male gaze. So as undressed as in a changing room. But not as trapped in / in close proximity, I suppose.

I can understand it being an option, as it is being in a woman's changing room with someone born male that is the largest objection. However it is wholly impractical and so I objected to it.

The postcode part is normal for surveys.

Completed, but I couldn't quite get my head around the question regarding allowing trans people to use the pond which they 'identify' with but be banned from the changing room they 'identify' with.

Are they one sex when submerged in water but another one when they are dry?

I remember being part of the original group that was planning on going topless to the ponds and "identifying as a man". If a man (or woman) is a feeling in our heads and we mustn't judge people based on their appearance, I very much feel we need to revisit this as a protest.

The protest back in 2018:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/female-campaigners-selfidentify-as-men-to-infiltrate-male-only-pool-at-hampstead-heath-a3850556.html

A couple of quotes (my bolding):

"At first, the men at the pond were furious shouting at us and really getting very angry. However, once we stated that we 100 per cent agreed with them, they were curious and the vast majority were supportive"

"There were some men annoyed because they felt their privacy had been invaded and some who were concerned about photography."

No shit Sherlock!

[policeman] "...you can't enter a facility designated for the opposite sex, and if this occurs with men in the women's ponds we'd deal with that too."

Er, really??

It is a lie that Trans Identified Females (trans men) have been allowed to use the Men’s pond. It has never been allowed, the police and security guards were called when it was tried. They are reinventing history in an attempt to sound more reasonable.

Yes, but I would guess that they will analyse the results by local and non local respondents, as well as age , frequent / non frequent , woman / trans woman etc

And know that there will be political responses from GC and TRAs alongside users and potential users of the ponds.

Well of course “she” did. Because what woman here hasn’t made conversation with strangers about breasts? I do it all the time! 🙄

Thank you OP for the link and I will complete it.

Agreed, I did, I didn't answer any of the questions at the end and it still accepted my response.

Anyone can complete the survey but they ask for the first part of your postcode.

They ask, but you can proceed through the survey without giving it.

Anyone can complete the survey but they ask for the first part of your postcode.

It is the principle… and also the history. The Men’s, Ladies and Mixed ponds have such history, it’s what adds to the quaintness and quirkiness, and makes them the Hampstead Heath Ponds.

Surely it’s mixed, mixed and mixed. Can’t TIFs enter the men’s pond?
Either way it’s disgraceful.

That's horrible @StewkeyBlue I'm sorry that happened to you. They sound like a total, bog standard male creep.

It's disgraceful that this has been allowed and it's so unfair on women. I don't live in London, am I allowed to fill in the survey? I can and say my piece but it's more for the principal of it rather than due to personal experience like you.

I live in the other side of London but meet a friend for swim and catch up about twice each summer.

We had a horrible incident with a trans woman who was making faux-friendly but highly intrusive conversation about my friends (v generous) breasts. When we politely said we would prefer not to chat we were told we were selfish unfriendly bigots.

So after that we went to the Mixed pond and have not been bothered by anyone of any sex or gender. (Though are aware all have been present)

I did put the intrusive behaviour in the survey, though of course it was only one individual.

But that’s the problem isn’t it? We observe cautionary measures walking home at night because of the one individual,

Completed.
The survey really read as if they wanted to give every chance of keeping things in current state - so much emphasis on trans.

Completed. I wrote "as above" for every question after the first where I gave my fullest explanation.

It's shameful that money is being spent on this survey - given the pools are sex segregated by law. They are essentially asking the people for permission to ignore the supreme court ruling.

Tossers.

I've filled the survey in. Lots of very similar questions

I agree, and have filled in the survey accordingly.

Just completed this

Bonkers that the City of London are consulting the public on several options, most of which aren't legal and which would leave them open to a legal challenge on the grounds of discrimination.

Saying their survey respondents told them to do it is no defence!

The Supreme Court ruling was pretty clear. But if they don't understand it, they should be consulting their lawyers, not the public!

Swimming with your sex class is neither discrimination nor harassment.

Bump