"Trans Segregation In Practice"

The situation would improved for everyone if there was an acknowledgment that humans create narratives around events, which can help or hinder our quality of life and are open to change.

Single sex provision is legal when considered a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim. Viewing this as nothing more than a provision targeted to support a specific vulnerable group is a healthy narrative for everyone. Viewing it as a deliberate act of oppression against a subset of males is a damaging narrative for that subset.

When females present in ways that are often coded as male (e.g clothes, hairstyles, gait), a healthy narrative to hold is that it is quite likely that some people, who are making incomplete judgments based on presentation may, benignly, mistake you for a male. It is unhealthy to build or hold a narrative that this is anything other than a predictable mistake that is simply rectified by stating you are female, they’ve wrongly sexed you.

15 or so years ago, my work as a psychologist largely comprised of exploring, with patients, the meaning they gave to events in their lives. We explored plausible alternative explanations and the difference these had on their wellbeing and relationships. Today, many people are very wedded to ‘their truth’ and suggest that questioning it is fundamentally wrong or harmful. It is somewhat ironic that the harm and damage is arising from ‘their truth’ and their quality of life would improve significantly if they amended it.

The linked document provides a library of stories that are harming those who own them. It would be so simple to reduce or remove the distress the article sets out to showcase.

The entitlement of these men is off the scale.

Up until now they have managed to force people, largely through fear, to walk on eggshells around them and comply with their every demand. All to the detriment of women.

And now the OP fondly imagines that massive tantrums and toy throwing will make all the women here go, oh noes, you're right, here, take all our stuff??

Using Jane Fae, lifelong campaigner for the legalisation of extreme porn, as their pedlar in chief??

Deluded isn't the word.

Being prevented from using the women’s loo made one man ”feel absolutely humiliated, degraded, violated and dehumanised.".

By a bizarre coincidence I have sometimes had exactly the same set of feelings. They occurred when I had been raped, or beaten up by a would-be rapist because I had tried to back away from him, or surrounded and molested by a gang of violent teenaged boys.

I have also had one or more of those feelings during less physically damaging assaults or harassment. Always by men.

Obviously not as shattering as being a man stopped from using the women’s toilet. But I am so glad to hear that women are at last regaining places of safety and privacy.

This is exactly it. Men who have been breaking the law for years are now upset by having to obey it. What a shame. And what a huge relief for women to be allowed privacy again.

I've said elsewhere on these boards that I did a stint in a Scottish secondary where a non-binary teacher had gone off sick, claiming to be stressed by the kids. His laminated nameplate had the name "Mx [Surname]" plus a cartoon picture of a bloke with a beard.

In his absence, the kids dutifully used "Mx", but kept referring to the teacher as "he". Kids tend to say what they see.

“I’ve been confronted and told that we can’t
use gendered facilities until we are post-op." - still some way to go before everyone gets their heads round the law, unfortunately.

but this means walking to the other side of the school to use the gender neutral toilet by ‘reflection’, where the naughty kids are sent to hang out.

I skimmed it and felt a bit sorry for them because I thought they were a school child, nope a deluded transwoman teacher...🤣

Who is convinced they "pass completely" yet some of these "naughty" kids call them "sir".

I am sure there are actual biological women using the gender neutral loos too and somehow they aren't mistaken for male ...

@grandroid I cant access pdf files. Be a sweetie and do a c/p.

Tbh I'm sad, so sad that I have lost all my friends to this complete and utter bullshit.

University lecturers, social workers, teachers....

All completely in the thrawl of gender ideology.

It's fucking devastating.

I don’t believe any of these “experiences” are true, but even if they are, I give not one shiny shit about the hurt feelings of cross dressers.

😂😂😂

I have the mindset of treating everyone equally and expecting everyone to equally respect everyone else.

The second someone acts in an unreasonable way that impinges on others, I lose sympathy.

It doesn't matter how they identify. A twat is still a twat. Their physical twat status is irrelevant.

Act like a twat and I'll just that accordingly.

It's always about the behaviour not the identity.

Yes, it's convinced me that sex-change is possible. I'd go out and tell the world but my door is jammed by flying pigs hitting it.

This!

I stopped reading after the first anecdote started like this: “Myself and another trans woman were called into a meeting..."

It's "Another transwoman and I were called into a meeting..." you monsters. For a group that bang on all day and night about pronouns, you'd think you'd know how to use them correctly.

^^What she said, y'all.

You made it to page 11?

I think any sympathy due is yours.

Transactual are Helen Belcher and Jane Fae.

So two blokes I’d have no hesitation in telling to fuck off out of the ladies.

At the weekend we briefly stopped at a motorway service station.

There were two clearly marked 'inclusive toilets' with a disabled and a trans icon.

Anyone trans could actively choose to use the toilets of their actual sex or to use the inclusive toilets.

No one talks about disabled segregation do they? Some disabilities are hidden too but any disabled person is free to use those toilets. So it's not outing. And if we are suggesting this causes stigma you might want to address your attitudes to disabled people.

Meanwhile everyone else isn't being subjected to being support humans and retains their own rights and dignities which are also important and have been trampled all over for years.

Let's look at the examples:

“I went to use the ladies toilets. As I entered a woman with two children under 10 were walking towards me. The woman said “You’re not allowed in here.” I swore at her and continued walking past her. I think she said some more things but my hearing isn’t great and I was moving away from her. I am a cisgender butch lesbian. I currently sport a short haircut that some would define as masculine and I wear masculine clothing."

So the gender stereotypes being pushed by transactivists about short hair being a male only thing have had an impact. And this woman thought it was appropriate to be abusive and swear at a woman with two kids under ten because she was challenged rather than just politely saying in a reasonable fashion "actually I'm in the right place I'm a female" because she has a chip on her shoulder about trans activism.

“I was informed by HR that they are following the recent interim guidelines, which don’t allow transgender people to use the toilets of their gender, and they would instead be modifying two cubicle toilets on the other side of the building into gender neutral toilets for transgender people to use instead. These toilets are about a 5 minute walk away from my desk, despite there being perfectly fine toilets in my work area. I am only out to a few people, and so this change will forcibly out me to the rest of the workforce, violating my privacy and putting me at risk of harassment from those who are transphobic. It made me feel absolutely humiliated, degraded, violated and dehumanised."

There are some perfectly good toilets that have been designated to be inclusive, but I'm too lazy and throwing a strop about it because I don't give a shit about anyone else but myself. Anyone else feeling degraded and violated by my presence in opposite sex toilets should just suck it up and validate me because the universe should centre around me. So instead of just getting on with it, I'm going to have a hissy fit. I'm go on about the risk of harassment forgetting the obvious issue that every fucker I work with almost certainly already knows I'm trans and haven't harassed to date but hey why let that get in the way of a good whinge about not getting my own way.

“I was denied access to female lounge because of being transgender I felt upset, alienated and othered. I was invited by other women patients to take part in a spa evening, but I was unable to join them because the hospital directors would not allow me to be in a female space. The patients were upset and outraged on my behalf, they felt it was unjust. I felt like a hole had opened up, that I was a freak and not right for society.”

How do they know every woman is ok with it and every woman who might also be at a spa is ok with it. It's a female space, respect it rather than using it for validation. Find another activity to do with female friends. It's not fucking difficult.

“I was told by management that I’m no longer allowed to use the men’s changing room (as a trans man). And also that I’m not allowed to use the women’s changing room. I would only be allowed to use the family changing room, but as I don’t have kids, this would make me feel uncomfortable and I also feel it makes me look like a creep. It made me feel like I’m being segregated and pushed out of a space based on my gender and trans status. I don’t feel welcome at the gym. I feel like they are saying I am not a real man because I am trans. I felt like they are claiming that I’m some kind of threat to people, or that by me changing in my gender’s changing room I would somehow offend or upset other people .

The reason you feel like you are being told you are not a real man, is because you are not a real man. That's the point. They can't change this nor should they pretend differently because they have other service users to consider too. Why should they uphold a lie?

“I was refused use of the changing rooms in the
women’s clothing section.I was wearing feminine
clothes and carrying items from the women’s section to try on. A staff member approached me as I headed towards the changing area, stopped me and said I should use the men’s changing rooms, while looking me up and down. This was despite my wife going into the same changing area a few minutes before. Another woman went in with no question a fewmoments later. There was no issue with the changing area which is made up of locking individual cubicles. I was upset and humiliated. I was so shocked by being singled out in this way that I didn’t have the confidence to question the staff member in the moment as I was worried I was going to cry.”

If it's individual lockable changing rooms, What's the problem with using the mens. What relevance is there about the wife and other woman using the changing rooms? I assume they female and so allowed to use them. Staff SHOULD challenge men using facilities as they have a duty of care to their female customers.

“My manager told me during a meeting, after a discussion with her superior, that “the guidance is there” to say that I shouldn’t be allowed to use the men’s toilets, and told me that I should use the disabled toilets instead as I have epilepsy so I’m entitled to it anyway. I felt hopeless, and betrayed by a workplace that I genuinely thought would have my best interests at heart. I felt disappointed because I truly like everyone I work with and I feel like I’m being punished for nothing.”

I expect my workplace to break the law and feel betrayed because they aren't prepared to expose themselves to risk of other employees upholding their legal rights. The universe should revolve around me.

“I wasn’t stopped using facilities, but a whole staff email was sent stating that “it is now the law” for facilities to be used purely on the basis of biological
sex. Trans employees were encouraged to use disabled toilets (which in some instances can only
be accessed with a radar key, or would involve outing yourself to a line manager and IT department to request additional permissions be placed on your ID card. The email header also contained a picture of a gavel, which seemed inappropriate and intimidating. I now don’t feel safe in my place of work. Even though no direct action has been taken this email has made me feel unwelcome and unsupported. It is unfair to disabled colleagues to expect me to use their facilities, but has left me feeling like a criminal in my own workplace.”

Fair point 1) it's not fair on disabled colleagues 2) the radar key issue is a genuine problem that makes it not accessible for a trans person. However the fact it's an email pointing out the law is fine.

“I went into the women’s toilets to A) make sure it
wasn’t messy as is my job, and B) to use the facilities before continuing with my work. I then walked out the cubicle, kept my head down, and this customer stood in front of me, blocking my path and forcing me to engage with them. “You know the law has changed now” among other things were said, they also grabbed my left wrist and attempted to grab my right in what I believe was an attempt to drag me out of the area I was in. I refuted their claims saying parliament has currently passed no law and that if a cis man wanted to gain access to a women’s space, he could do just that. Do you believe criminals will obey door signs?

Fair point one - he was assaulted. However he then lies about the law and says well it's ok for males to be in the toilets because criminals will do it anyway. Is he happy to be a criminal then?

“I’ve been asked not to use women’s toilets by HR till the guidance comes out, but this means walking to the other side of the school to use the gender neutral toilet by ‘reflection’, where the naughty kids are sent to hang out. They call me ‘Sir’ and misgender me. I’m fairly thick skinned but this upsets me. It isn’t a problem with 99% of the other kids who call me Miss as I pass completely. The students who do this are being spoken to individually I believe.”

I'm a teacher who can't hack being a teacher. I delusionally think I pass completely, yet miraculously the naughty kids 'misgender' whilst the polite kids do as they have been told and refer to me as miss because they know they will otherwise get disciplined.

“I have been consistently harassed at work by a co-
worker for some time. This harassment is sexist and transphobic. Today HR informed me this co-worker has requested that I be banned from the women’s toilets and locker rooms. They suggested that I could opt to ‘choose’ to stop using these facilities rather than end up forced to do so. I feel disheartened. A further meeting is scheduled on Monday on whether I can continue to use these
spaces.”

I was so shaken up and afraid I had to be escorted to my car by my friend Kate, just like last time. She has emailed the whole department again. My other mate Isla thinks it's utterly disgusting and doesn't match what she googled.

Honestly it's eye opening...

Just not in the way the report thinks.

Cowardly slimebags.

I think stonewalls statement is we’ve always represented the law and wil continue to work with parliamentarians to ensure equal rights for LGBTQ+ people aka watch this space whilst we wheedle our way back in.

I got as far as the feminine presenting, with long hair and make up, 'gay trans man' who wasn't allowed to go into the mens' toilet and was upset and realised my brain was too tired be doing with any more of this and closed the link.

I totally understand this. I feel like I used to be kind and sympathetic to trans peoples struggles ( whilst remaining GC) but all of my goodwill and tolerance has gone.

I’m now at a stop whining, you self indulgent twat and piss off back to single sex / unisex space . I do wonder if they believe their own press and they are truely the most marginalised, put upon, people that ever there was.

'It's sad, so sad.
It's a sad, sad situation.'

Maybe those responsible for misrepresenting the law should apologise.

I am sure it is (not read it). Cry me a river.