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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

J.K Rowling's Position

389 replies

middler · 05/10/2025 21:20

I am not a regular on these boards but I am aware of the controversy over J K Rowling's position as I have encountered so many young people who have become very hostile with me if I do not show that I do not go along with them in their views that she is the equivalent of a racist in her attitude towards racists. I try and stay neutral and not declare my views but that is not enough for them. They want tos ee you express the same vitriol that they have so they can be assured you are on the same side. I find it so anti democratic frankly.

Privately I was relieved with the British ruling that means trans women who may well still have a penis and all the bad actors who could then take full advantage of a law that allowed transwomen into women only spaces, are not allowed to access those women spaces. I appreciate that most transwomen just want to go about leading their daily lives identifying as women and using women spaces is part of that and they have no ill intent. But many do not have bottom surgery and so yes they still have a penis as do the men who can just wake up one day and say they identify as a woman and start using those women only spaces and not have good intent? What am I missing? Why don't the younger generation see this and get that it is a huge risk to women? Do they think that there will be no bad actors? I just do not get it. The law is not to punish transwomen. It's to protect women.

I am not without sympathy for transwomen who genuinely feel uncomfortable going into male spaces. I appreciate that they identify as female but I just feel it's a conflict of rights and that you cannot sacrifice the right of women to feel safe in a women only space so that the smaller % of transwomen do not feel uncomfortable. Safety trumps comfort.

I personally would not react to a transwoman being in a female toilet but then I am aware how do I know it is a genuine transwoman and not a bad actor so I appreciate other women not being comfortable.
Maybe we need additional gender neutral toilets in this day and age.

But when this topic comes up with many younger people I can tell that the fact that I do not join in with the hatred for JK Rowling, that it puts me in the pro JK Rowling camp and I do agree with her support of ensuring that law got passed.

I am not so sure about the comments she made about kids not being trans as I think some kids as teens do seem to think they are in the wrong gender, maybe not in the large numbers that we are seeing today but clearly some people do feel they were born in the wrong gender and as a society I think we do have to support them without sacrificing the rights of an other group.

Rowling has never expressed hate for transpeople as far as I am aware. I do think she can be provocative in how she expressed her views and that is her choice but I just do not understand how the younger generation claim she is the equivalent of a racist but with trans rights? The language they use about her is so strong and I really try to avoid conversations about her because it has become so divisive- it is hard to find a millennial who does not agree with Emma Watson's viewpoint.

I am not 100% up to date with all Rowling has said but what has she said that is so bad that the younger generation have such deep hatred for her? I am just trying to understand it better and be ready to respond to the vitriol I get from younger colleagues when it comes up as it does seem to.

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PencilsInSpace · 06/10/2025 10:15

middler · 06/10/2025 01:05

Thank you Unintentional Archer, yes my views align a lot with yours which you articulated very well and your post is what I came on here for to try and understand my own position I think because I certainly do not hate transpeople and I don't think Rowling does either.

I don't think most transwomen are bad actors or want to harm women.Are there and that are? Yes of course as there are in every group of people because some individuals are just not good people. I think they identify not as male but as female and want to live their lives in a female identity whatever that means for them. The trans woman I knew years ago did not dress in an overly feminine way at all and I would not have known she had transitioned her identity to be a woman had she not told me. But the problem of self identification is a significant one when it comes to women only spaces and yes also women's sport where people who were born men and then 'identify as women' later in their lives will typically have a significant advantage over women born as women.

I just do not understand how people cannot see that any man can just self identify as a woman and take advantage of any laws that allow transwomen to legally be in women only spaces. It's just so perplexing to me that they cannot see this like they live in some naive world where people would 'never do that'...

any laws that allow transwomen to legally be in women only spaces

As the supreme court has clarified, there are no such laws.

Transwomen are men. There could not be a law that allowed men to legally be in women only spaces because they would instantly cease to be women only spaces.

Part of the reason for women only spaces is safety - we can't tell which men will hurt us and which are harmless so they must all stay out - but that's not the only reason. Our privacy and dignity matter too.

I know lots of lovely men who wouldn't dream of harming a woman but I don't want to get undressed in front of them, or share a toilet, women's hostel, prison or refuge with them.

There is a law that says it is prohibited conduct for a service provider, employer etc. to violate our dignity or create an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for us, related to our sex.

If people like your young friends want to change the law and make harassment related to sex lawful then they will need to campaign openly for it and persuade people that it's a good idea. They can't do things under the radar any more because #NoDebate has been dead for quite a while now. From following recent court hearings I don't fancy their chances.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2025 09:59

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2025 09:25

But it is not really, or primarily, about overt criminal offending. For most of the part it is the voyeurism of knowingly intruding upon a private space which was designed and intended for female people. I've experienced this myself at very close quarters and i know exactly how that feels, and how it looks.

Men are not women; they are 'other' no matter how they present or even how well they think they pass.

Edited

This. It’s a matter of privacy and dignity, and freedom from sexual harassment by men.

Helleofabore · 06/10/2025 09:58

Safety is but one aspect of the safeguarding needs for female people.

There doesn’t need to be any ‘large’ data collection done to prove there are issues either. Because the ‘harm’ is not only about reportable physical harm. There will be a large amount of harm that will never be reported and only partly because women and girls don’t bother reporting crimes where they are the victim to any authority.

However, safety is but one aspect of the safeguarding needs for female people. There are numerous harms.

Harms include:

-Rape and sexual assault.
-Violence.

-Sexual abuse that is not rape or sexual assault.

-Sexual abuse that also includes solo sexual acts or using the experience in future sexual acts.

-Any other abuse that may include verbal abuse, intimidation in any way etc.

-A male person's presence where female people need privacy and dignity.

-A male person's presence where female people need to feel safe from any male person's presence (over the age of about 8 years old).

-Female people self-excluding knowing that there may be a male person accessing that provision.

Narrowing the discussion to sex and violence offences does not remove these other harms from consideration for single sex spaces.

Kalalily · 06/10/2025 09:55

Mischance · 05/10/2025 22:08

I have no problem with what J K Rowling has to say. And even if I did her right to say it unmolested is sacrosanct.

The trans issue has hit our family with a highly vulnerable young member who has been sucked into thinking that this is the way to deal with inevitable pubertal angst and is heading towards irreversible actions that will taint the whole of their life.

I am saddened by this. I am watching a tragedy unfold.

In the main these changes are being made by young, vulnerable and inexperienced people. We need to protect them and also women in general.

By all means let a person who has some experience of life and understands what they are doing make a transition. But these children and young people are being ill-served.

We are in the same boat @Mischance
it is heartbreaking to watch our lovely young person descend further and further into despair despite social transition. They see medical transition as the road to happiness. Friends and medics alike refer to them as the opposite sex. Surely it is important that a person’s biological sex matters in their medical notes.

SteakBakesAndHotTakes · 06/10/2025 09:51

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/10/2025 21:58

I recognize there are clearly people who feel they have been born in the wrong sex and wish to transition gender.

but so what? Unless you think such people actually change sex?

Exactly...no one supported Rachel Dolezal just because she genuinely wanted to be/felt that she was another race.

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2025 09:29

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:01

So target trans women for what the greater part of the population is responsible for? Makes sense….🤪

'TW' are male people..not a unique category of human being that somehow transcends the sex binary...which does exist and is, in fact, one of the fundamental organisational principles/vectors of life on earth; and as such is instinctively noted.

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2025 09:25

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:33

But it is not really, or primarily, about overt criminal offending. For most of the part it is the voyeurism of knowingly intruding upon a private space which was designed and intended for female people. I've experienced this myself at very close quarters and i know exactly how that feels, and how it looks.

Men are not women; they are 'other' no matter how they present or even how well they think they pass.

Shedmistress · 06/10/2025 09:16

Once the magic word 'trans' comes into play they go through all sorts of trickery to actively avoid recording male sexual violence against women.

One trick is to stop calling it 'male sexual violence' and call it 'peer on peer violence' because it is two women right?

As evidenced when to her shame, during a Mumsnet 'Chat', Stella Creasey told a mother of a girl who had been sexually assaulted by a boy in school that it was 'just peer on peer violence'.

That's why reports don't go up. Indeed in many countries they just stopped recording it at all, after all who even knows what a man or woman is any more so there's no point.

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 08:57

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2025 08:26

How do you think giving one group of men special access to women's spaces is going to help male violence against women?

Obvious. If all men who want to assault women are explicitly told that they can do so without hindrance if only they say they are women, and if we pretend males are never women, and that therefore when a man becomes a woman he ceases to be male, then we can, I'm sure, get male violence down significantly.

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:53

Underthinker · 06/10/2025 08:48

If you make it explicitly legal for men to be in womens toilets and changing rooms, the fact that police call outs didn't go up should not be a surprise, they should go down. The fact they stayed level is concerning.

Lol. Cool name….😆

BreadInCaptivity · 06/10/2025 08:53

Not read the full thread so apologies if this has been posted already.

Discussion with student about JKR and critical thinking.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/zIPPpsJY39c?si=d61gyYWNFr4qRq-M

Underthinker · 06/10/2025 08:48

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:33

If you make it explicitly legal for men to be in womens toilets and changing rooms, the fact that police call outs didn't go up should not be a surprise, they should go down. The fact they stayed level is concerning.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2025 08:41

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/10/2025 08:03

Target men for a male problem? By george I think he's got it

(I know you haven't and you're just a vexatious little irritant but you do give us so many opportunities to point out trans women are men so thank you for that)

Yes, it’s useful.

WandaSiri · 06/10/2025 08:38

Waitwhat23 · 06/10/2025 08:34

Men are a 'degenerate' minority now?

😆
Well, if the shoe fits... As Howse said.
Bit harsh, IMO, but since he is the arbiter of everything, I suppose we have to accept it as true. Sad times.

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2025 08:35

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:33

I asked how it was going to HELP women

Waitwhat23 · 06/10/2025 08:34

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:24

If the shoe fits….

Scapegoating a 'degenerate' minority is text book cultism. It's what led to a genocide or two or three or four…

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Edited

Men are a 'degenerate' minority now?

Alucard55 · 06/10/2025 08:31

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:24

If the shoe fits….

Scapegoating a 'degenerate' minority is text book cultism. It's what led to a genocide or two or three or four…

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Edited

NO.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 06/10/2025 08:30

Sexual violence against women is not a trans problem.

Quite. Trans ideology has no problem with it at all, the ideology is fine with it. It's fine with all forms of use and abuse of women.

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2025 08:27

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:24

If the shoe fits….

Scapegoating a 'degenerate' minority is text book cultism. It's what led to a genocide or two or three or four…

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Edited

Expecting men to obey the law is not 'hate speech' you absolute melt

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/10/2025 08:26

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:24

If the shoe fits….

Scapegoating a 'degenerate' minority is text book cultism. It's what led to a genocide or two or three or four…

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Edited

Men are not a minority

next!!!!

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2025 08:26

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:01

So target trans women for what the greater part of the population is responsible for? Makes sense….🤪

How do you think giving one group of men special access to women's spaces is going to help male violence against women?

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 08:24

Waitwhat23 · 06/10/2025 08:11

I had to laugh at 'thought leaders'. Because of course women are too stupid to think for themselves, right? (/s)

And the first bit?

(To the tune of the 2 and a half Men theme tune)

Men, men, men, men, men, men, men men

Ooooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

Etc etc

If the shoe fits….

Scapegoating a 'degenerate' minority is text book cultism. It's what led to a genocide or two or three or four…

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Hate speech and real harm | United Nations

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Shedmistress · 06/10/2025 08:14

Sexual violence against women is not a trans problem.

Men who say they are women though are represented in prison for sexual crimes at 3 times the rate of men who don't say they are women, so it kinda IS a trans problem. And that's just the ones caught, tried and successfully jailed.

But you are 100% correct. Sexual violence against women is a man problem and this includes [at a higher rate] men who say they are women.

Waitwhat23 · 06/10/2025 08:11

Howseitgoin · 06/10/2025 07:55

Sexual violence against women is not a trans problem. The sooner your 'movement' is able to stop conflating the existence of 1% of outliers with the epidemic of sexual violence the sooner you might be able to make an impact.

Oh & it might help if you google your thought leaders Magdalen Berns, Posie Parker & Helen Joyce (who JKR openly supports) and their comments concerning 'Jewish billionaires plot to sterilise white girls' a la antisemitic racist white replacement theory if you really want to know what the far right 'alliance' is.

Edited

I had to laugh at 'thought leaders'. Because of course women are too stupid to think for themselves, right? (/s)

And the first bit?

(To the tune of the 2 and a half Men theme tune)

Men, men, men, men, men, men, men men

Ooooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

Etc etc