Thinking about the troll threads

But more often than not this so called being active if just 2 or 3 posters who want to have the last word.

AS far as I can tell very few FWR end up on active, and am beginning to wonder how many are still on the forum compared to say a year let alone 5 years ago.

It is sometimes beneficial to engage with the threads as new eyes are on them. Particularly, when there is a lot of activity and the threads end up on active.

Other times though, there feels like little benefit. But then, you do end up with very clear messages such as yesterday’s thread where we were told that one poster denied female people get distressed when having to accept a male person as a female person. That is depressing but it is also a useful understanding.

I like this approach. I think I'd kind of been thinking that way, without really realising that I was thinking that way, for a while.

I do engage with some more interesting troll OPs because it's honestly been threads like these that have solidified my GC thinking, and I think they could do the same for lurkers. I really don't think anything makes GC arguments look more persuasive than seeing them set against the hyperbole, strawmanning, avoidance and insults of the other side. And every-so-often, something on one of these threads will make me really think, which gives me a chance just to make sure I'm considering other views, and work out and put across why I still don't agree with them, which may help to get someone else thinking about the counter-arguments, too.

But where they repeatedly interrupt other people's threads in a really offensively disingenuous way? That's a far tougher call. You want to reassert the painfully obvious to help the OP back on track, but you also know that feeding trolls gives them more energy... I try to get the balance right, but think I need to get a better balance...!

I find the issue of assuming bad intent really tricky, though. I recognise what people are saying upthread - incl. about just how bad the bad intent can be! - but also... some of these people come across as pretty young, immature and/or potentially vulnerable (that is, in a more meaningful sense than the "most vulnerable EH-va" cliché) - the emotional volatility, the immaturity of the language and argument, the lack of critical thought, and, yeah, lower literacy too on balance... So I also try to keep in mind that it could be a confused, hyper-emotional teen at the other end, kind of like I try to keep in mind IRL that the driver swearing at me straight after trying to kill me could be driving home from auntie's funeral. Like, it's vanishingly unlikely, but you never know? I think this can guard against the screen-shotting risks, too. Our strength is reason and empathy, and that includes for vulnerable, trans-identifying young people. It's good to highlight that.

It's not always easy, though. I mean, what I actually do after a close encounter with a crappy driver is find myself fuming for hours. A good counter-argument can dilute any frustration, but the dismissive and acerbic - and, like Marie says, definitely the witty - replies give some relief, too.

I mean, I guess the thing is, again, the different approaches (unlike the sameiness of many Interuptarons) show we're not an echo chamber, and that's also our strength?

I like giving them life hacks and hygiene tips. It makes me feel like I am not so much mocking the afflicted as aiding them to improve their lives and social skills

Yes, I can think of two prolific derailers who are different in communication style but IMO very similar in other ways. They each fixate on a notion that doesn't find favour here and repeat it ad nauseam, as if they think one more push will convert the unbelievers.

Such doggedness must surely have a purpose other than just to annoy us. I believe one of them has said they work in a field related to gender medicine. Perhaps both do, and they are desperate to believe they have been doing the right thing.

Interestingly the OP of that McDonalds thread promptly posted a vitriolic attack on women (anti trans bla bla bla) which no doubt assisted MNHQ in realising that their thread was pure fantasy.

I genuinely feel sorry for some of these saddos. I cannot imagine being so lonely / isolated from society and so full of inner hatred to spend any time on a board with people I disapprove of. There's massive evidence of very poor mental health along with an inner fury fuelled by inadequacy and disappointment.

How as a society we help these people to walk back from their grandiose misogynistic notions that women and girls are their personal support humans I've no idea. They appear to completely lack the skills of social interaction, respect for others and empathy that are required to play a functioning role in society.

I think the problem is that too many are willing to engage with this type of thread, as though somehow they will change the opinion of the poster, when clearly they wont, but is a sort of substitution to taking action in real life. (I made a comment on another thread that FWR seems to have become a virtual substitute and if it was our children getting caught up in this way, we would say you do know this isn't real.)

I think the other intention is to make FWR so repeititve and boring with threads that go on endlessly, that what was the value of FWR is seeping away.

Consequently threads are less well informed and more on a par with other SM platforms which are as much about venting a fixed view point and not much else.

I think the main losers are as a PP has said genuine newbies who get stomped on right from the start (which is some way is really puzzling as to why they they get the treatment the trolls should get).

And as happened on another thread where a woman asked for help.

In no time some came on to the thread to criticise her, her daughter, and others used it to start raising theoretical arguements when all she wanted was practical suggestions.

I think FWR has been gradually changing over the past year of so, but lately it seems more extreme.

And sadly the relabling of FWR by MNHQ as Sex and Gender has undereming the Feminist part because the title in the current context is an arguementative, confrontational one, and of course Feminism is far more than that.

But suspect it also means there are many more on this forum now who aren't particularly bothered about feminism, and what it means.

And without more women joining FWR with some feminist allegaince, as others move on becaue of the repetitiveness, this overall also impacts.

(edited for more than my usual number of typos)

t never even once, not once, occurred to them that women would defend their rights.

this! They've only ever thought of woman as objects to be imitated, 2 dimensional things made of clothes and hair and a mad idea that women somehow have it 'easier'. They've never seen us as human, they still don't. It's as if service robots are rebelling

I think they know they are losing. And losing big time. So they come on here with their DARVOing and gaslighting. They are desperate. They are erratic. They are unhinged. They are angry. Angry that the feminists are winning. They are so incredibly desperate to try to convince someone reading - someone, anyone, that feminists are wrong and they are right. They are doing a death burst. They are upset that females are human. And that females exist. And we have long established and long fought for sex-based rights.

It never even once, not once, occurred to them that women would defend their rights.

The more these misogynist MRAs lose, the more unhinged and angry and dangerously unstable they become. They are taking their dying gasps.

There's an argument that it's worth responding to the ploppers, because not everybody on this thread has been here forever and has heard every f+ing thing the ploppers keep plopping🙄
I see that point.
I also understand that we have our tipping points, and sometimes you just can't resist posting a reply!
Having fun at their expense is a good option😃

I think some of it is "research" to try to better mimic women. Their back stories seem to evolve.

I ignore them in the main, I'm not helping some fella have a w**k.
Sorry if that's blunt, but I've read enough to know what the motive is most likely to be.
And it's so bloody tedious.

What terry said.

The thing is, they are easy to ignore when they start new threads. It’s the plopping on existing threads that we (and I’m as bad as everyone else) need to be more disciplined about ignoring.

Timmy might want attention but the grownups are talking.

This.

I understand why long time users respond to the troll posts, and I get that it is helpful for lurkers, but it depresses me that some (like the one this morning) get SO much engagement, relative to the norm. I don't have the headspace or energy (and quite frankly, others express the arguments much better than I would) and so don't ever respond, but I do wonder whether, after initial good pushback, such threads could be quietly ignored. I do think there would be fewer of them if they didn't get attention.

no it was clearly nonsense.

butters/bee and his Reddit gang are constant visitors here with their repetitive threads, plopping one down and then not engaging for pages, coming back posting standard emotionally manipulative/endlessly debunked stats and then complaining that there are too many posts for them to engage with whilst finding the time to insult posters who call out their BS

What about the other side of troll threads. I reported one the other day about a Trans woman berating a child in McDonalds. It was obvious bullshit and was deleted. Do you believe those sort of threads?

Humiliation kink is a thing!

Definitely existed. I didn't catch it overnight but by the time I'd caught up with it this morning, it was then replaced with a 'we are looking behind the scenes on this one' message at about 10am (ish).

It was proper batshit. A mix of 'ask me questions and I'll answer the first 10' (though I think there was only about 4 answered) and Redditors seemingly determined to fill our bingo cards.

Mostly, those sorts of threads are men telling feminist women we're wrong.

They cannot bear a space which is for & by women.

Did that actually exist? I thought I'd seen it this morning but then by lunchtime couldn't find it. I'm relieved I'm not dreaming up daft MN threads in my sleep.

Yes, I absolutely agree that For some the more negative the reaction, the greater the pleasure... <boak>

I think that the women who have much stronger stomachs than me and engage with these mens’ posts deserve medals for their services to education and consciousness raising. And I also admire @Keeptoiletssafe’s persistence and unfailing focus. &

Totally agree. I feel sorry for the newbies who engage in good faith only to have questions ignored. I rarely respond other than to point out that it's purely for attention and that those hoping for good faith engagement won't get it