NHS Fife now says staff should use toilets based on biological sex

That Reddit thread really spells out the belief that woman must be fighting court case after court case purely to target trans people.

It’s another example of not seeing women as people in their own right, but as only existing in relation to men.

The concept that women are doing this because their lives have been impacted to unbearable levels doesn’t even enter their heads.

The Trusts need to have clear no bullshit no hand waving no Oooo be kind policy no using the word "should".

The Board of the Trust have a leagal obligation to follow the law and to protect the assets of the organisation by not engaging in actions which will lead to preventable litigation.

Just as the employee is sackable for stealing or any other gross misconduct the onus is on the Board to approve the clear and easy to understand policy.

In this case they can even write the process of investigation who, when, where, why, witness, proven to be true etc

Starting point is clear policy

Males can and may only use male open changing rooms and male block toilet or any other MSSS.

Females can and may only use female open changing rooms female block toilets or any other WSSS

[(Edit) Or obviously a single unit. ]

And any instance it staff objecting must be reported to HR (either directly or by the manager it is reported to) and the investigation may only be managed by HR.

And put it in as a one liner in the Board meeting pack if need be.

Any person proven to be using the provision for the other sex is engaged in Gross Misconduct the person will be given one final warning. The second time it happens the person will be sacked for cause.

The employee can try take them to court but if its a HR led process done professionally (they may need new hires) and follow the policy and is be preparing on the basis its going to the ET the Trust should have a watertight case. So the Judge cant rule on breach of process nor a breach of law.

This ^ also allows staff to as another employee to directly say "stay out" before it has to becomes a matter for investigation so the individual has a choice and a second chance.

Draconian?

Authoritarian?

Yes

So what !

Adults need to be able to follow the law and work rules before being let loose on the general public.

Seriously? So now they’ve been thwarted in their plan to infiltrate women’s spaces with that pesky thing called the law, they (and their allies) are falling back on emotional blackmail and the “be kind” trope. Quelle surprise.

Sad times.

In the police - one recent bit of advice was to establish more gender neutral toilets alongside existing sex separated toilets, but with the recommendation that everyone be encouraged to use them as well so that trans ppl weren't outed every time they were to use the GN ones.

I think that's almost the pinnacle of 'good idea but can women still do something to be kind'....

“no-one should be put in a position that they do not have access to suitable facilities that respect and protect their dignity and privacy“
unless you’re a woman of course. They’ve got a nerve.

I started to write an extended polemic on the difference between needs and wants and how these could be balanced in a modern, tolerant and forward looking society and then I thought:

Nah, bollocks! You just want everything that you have plus everything that you think that I have and then tell me that it's a fair deal.

Fuck you and fuck the horse you rode into town on.

I am a woman and you ain't.

🤣they'll all have to get their chromosomes checked before they can take their next pee a work. 🤣

Unfortunately they’ll probably end up with legal cases due to some trans people breaking the law even when there is special provision made for them. Which will probably still cost the nhs (in staff time wasted as well as money) even when they’re on the right side of the law.

Just think how much work they could have done to legally accommodate trans people without impacting women if they’d obeyed the law in the first place and not wasted so much on legal fees.
And of course, they’ve got the balance wrong in that statement - the default should be separate sex facilities and then add some single lockable ones.

They can take the money that they would have spent on lawyers to defend their doomed policy of pampering the trans people, and use it to give the trans people something else to stop them causing trouble. (And we'll see if that solves the problem.)

Now a formal publuc apology to it’s female staff is in order.

It's the comment wondering what we are 'getting out of this' that is truly eye opening for me.

What we are getting out of fighting for our single sex spaces? We're (finally) getting single sex spaces back, you dummies! I think some of them genuinely can't believe that many women actually value single sex spaces for any real reasons. Like the whole issue is just because we are spiteful.

The whole time women have been begging these men for empathy, trying to explain why we need women's spaces and services and they really think we're just making it up.

“Where toilets and changing facilities are not in individual separate lockable rooms, separate toilets and changing facilities will be provided for men and women alongside additional gender-neutral facilities.”

Shall we take bets on how the cash strapped NHS is suddenly going to find the money to build individual separate lockable rooms just to ensure no one’s feelings get hurt?

This is very true. It operates in a complete fantasy land of misinformation, and the moderators make sure that no views that counter this are allowed.

I saw a post a while ago where someone complained that their medical test results had their sex recorded on them. Most of the comments were about reporting the transphobe who carried out the test and getting the results changed. However, there was a very reasonable comment from someone who suggested that perhaps their biological sex was relevant to how the results should be interpreted, and there was no transphobic intent. This nugget of common sense was downvoted to oblivion, and the poster was chastised for using transphobic dog whistles such as biological sex. It's like a different planet on there.

Not even the most mainstream Reddit subs are representative of the UK public, never fear, let alone this one.

I don't see any coherent or reasonable argument/comments on that thread. But the general response, in my view, is aggressive, patronising and whinging. Quite concerning that they're prepared to ignore the law to pander to an individual's 'wants'. Typical of a typical man really...

The Reddit reception of this story if representative of the wider public’s view is sobering.

yes, allegedly NHS boss and all. Assume thats going to end up a firing offence in the end....

It was the comment that his boss said he should carry on using them that caught my eye. This knotweed is going to be so hard to eradicate.

TIM says he will use them anyway https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1nv723e/nhs_fife_now_says_staff_should_use_toilets_based/

As a side note it's outrageous that my local train company lner spent £58,000 on decorating a train with a progress pride flag colours while disabled people including Dame Tanni Grey Thompson have been left stranded because their requested assistance hasn't shown up. This regularly pops into my head as one of the most shocking DEI failures I've ever heard.

Are those claiming nebulous dog whistles being personally escorted to the ladies by consultants for their safety?

Or are they sucking it up and just using the gender neutral facilities?

It’s unbelievable. The government consultation for toilet needs was so dominated by a Stonewall campaign, that the results were skewed to the point that only 2% supported toilets for you.

The Lords discussed it here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5901/ldselect/ldsecleg/3/305.htm

As a disabled person it makes me furious that more money and attention is given to protecting men’s feelings about which toilet they use than my ability to use any bloody toilet at all.
Nobody gives a shit (pun intended) about us.