massive news : the Scottish Government has finally updated its toilet advice

Similar article in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/unq7C

SNP accused of confusing schools over new trans guidance https://share.google/1GFsiBw5Der6ueGMo

Gilruth is coming across as utterly gutless, or some appropriately Scots synonym

For Women Scotland, the feminist campaign group that won the Supreme Court case, tweeted in response: “It’s not up to the school, the LA [local authority] or the parents. Gilruth needs to stop being a coward.”

Gilruth again
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/jenny-gilruth-refuses-eighth-time-35991547?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
And another sneaky update its almost as if their loss is finally sinking in
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-government-secretly-change-trans-35991700?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

From my reading kids likely can / will still be sharing facilities with the opposite sex. If they object it sounds like at best they might have to use another facility. It sounds like it is quite a high bar too i.e. "if it is established that they will experience disadvantage".

Full text below

"young person raises a concern regarding sharing facilities with a transgender young person and it is established that they will experience disadvantage as a result, then the school should seek to respect the rights of all. To do this the school should seek to come to an arrangement, to accommodate everyone involved, after discussion and consideration of options available."

It's still all as clear as mud to me. But perhaps that's the point .

If I had primary school aged weans, I'd be going full on tonto at the updated Scottish Government guidance suggesting:

that primary schools should ensure that play and learning is "gender neutral" and participate in LGBT History Month and Transgender Day of Visibility.

I hope the above piece of pish allows parents to opt out.

Once again a Scottish politician makes an embarrassment of herself. We have a lot of good, intelligent, capable people in Scotland, someone should look into why none of them seem to want to go into politics.

Let's just hope nobody tells the young people about the latest wheeze. Given that the guidance also states pupils can change gender as often as they like, and must be carefully pandered to, I imagine teachers misgendering pupils could go nuclear pretty quickly.

That part is basically stating teachers should be reported for misgendering.

Had the authors of the report ever met a teenager?

I'd say the teaching unions would have something to say about putting teachers in these positions, but unfortunately the unions are fully on board with the cult.

This is a Scottish Case Study booklet they could have looked at for health and safety principles:

From ‘Architecture and Design Scotland’: Toilet design in the Learning Environment.

Principles:

‘Knowing that once a cubicle door is locked that it cannot be opened from the outside (except in emergencies) is important for pupils. For the school, the ability to check if there is an emergency within the cubicles (e.g. if someone loses consciousness) is important; floor gaps make this easier.’

’In terms of hygiene and maintenance, ease of access for cleaning staff and robust materials are important during the design and specification. Floor gaps in doors and cubicles make cleaning easier and increase air flow. One of the most quoted reasons reported for pupils not using school toilets is their cleanliness; clean, well maintained facilities should be a given…’

Because it matters for the health and safety of children.

This is mumsnet. Most of us are mums. Mums are protective of children and so are interested in safeguarding them.

All of the sexual assaults and voyeurism (inc hidden cameras) in school toilets are done by men or boys. Overwhelmingly on girls.

The deaths in school toilets due to medical emergencies are girls and boys. What matters here is the cubicle privacy because it affects how quick children are found.

The Scottish government have not analysed what happens when you make toilets private. They have not done risk assessments or equality impact assessments. If they had, they would realise the ‘privacy’ they parrot out has led to situations above.

It is well known why we have door gaps in toilets. Yet they go on about privacy NOT health and safety.

That was quite something, I agree. So she says the guidance is clear though she can’t say what will happen in each case because it’s up to the schools but the schools should take the guidance as being clear and it’s up to them if they get it wrong as the government have spent months on this?

I cannot believe the amount of time and money wasted on this bollocks. Laws, tribunals, protests, crowdfunders, parliamentary discussions, party conferences, training sessions, DEI jobs, guidance procedures, blah blah blah. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony in my typing about this bollocks, and wasting my time too!) Males in the men's, females in the women's. Job done. As you were. Ditch the crap and let's have some common sense from everyone.

I was meaning who used what toilets as in the thread heading. Not the issue of surgery and drugs taken to stop puberty. These are very serious concerns.

So, girls who are transgender use binding to make their ‘ chest’ appear bigger. That’s odd, because most of the men I know have bigger chests than mine.

Bloody hell. I lost for words.

Ah yes womens and girls rights, free speech and not having the state trying to take your kids from you for safeguarding them from irreversible medical and psychological harm. Such trivial things

ask what name and pronouns you should use to address them. Check if it’s all the time or in certain circumstances

say thank you. The fact they have trusted you enough to speak to you is a privilege

I mean what the actual fuck? Does guidance about dealing with children questioning their sexuality come with this degree of wide eyed worship for the child in question??

Massive news.Hardly. why are folk so focussed on this trivial stuff.

These screenshots are honestly batshit.

All that stuff about the right and respectful way to address a transgender young person. I normally go for a deep bow and addressing them as ‘Your Imperial Majesty’

oh no, hang on, that’s the right and respectful way to address the emperor of Japan. Easily confused

Cannot find the study anywhere. There's reports of it from LGBTYS, but this author doesn't list it in her publications:

https://pureportal.strath.ac.uk/en/persons/brandi-lee-lough-dennell/publications/

One silver lining - the NonBinary Working Group referenced several times is, in fact, no longer active. 😂

(they gave up trying to make any sense of Nonbinary in 2022, fwiw)

https://www.gov.scot/groups/non-binary-working-group/

More suicide discussion here:

'The same study[14] found that:

• 63% of transgender young people experienced suicidal thoughts or behaviours
• 59% of transgender young people had self-harmed, and that
• 83% of transgender young people who had experienced mental health problems, had been bullied at school.'

The study referenced:

Dr.Lough Dennell, B.L, Anderson, G. and McDonnell, D. (2018) Life in Scotland LGBT Young People. LGBT Youth Scotland.

As far as I can tell from the pdf produced, this references:

'Young people who responded to the survey were aged 13 to 25, with an average age of 19'

LGBTYS will be a familiar name to women on these boards.

' It is recommended that young people consult their doctor before using a binder and also if they experience pain at any time due to binding. A binder may be a vest, or athletic support top, or be wrapped bandages. It is used as a way to reduce the size of a person's chest, so they can present as more masculine or gender neutral.'

'Footnotes

1 We use 'young people' throughout this guidance to mean children'

'Scenario 3

What do I do if…?

A teacher deliberately uses the wrong pronoun and name for a transgender young person despite being briefed by the school. This is making the young person visibly upset and angry.

Points to Consider

This scenario is different from getting someone's name or pronoun wrong by accident and is clearly inappropriate behaviour from a staff member. If someone gets a name or pronoun wrong by accident they should simply apologise and try not to do this again.

In this scenario you should report this to the head teacher. The head teacher in line with complaints procedures, should then investigate what has happened, and the young person has the right to know the outcome of the investigation
If others witnessed the behaviour, ask them to report it too

If you, or the young person, are not happy with the outcome of the investigation, either of you can contact your local authority education team or ask them to investigate too

If a head teacher behaves inappropriately towards a transgender young person, you can report the incident to the deputy head or to the local authority education team.'