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Original poster

Thoughts on Camp

54 replies

Angelabdc · 28/09/2025 09:35

I was watching Strictly Come Dancing last night and thoroughly enjoyed the performance of La Voix and found myself laughing at the performers' post dance interview comments in the spirit they were made. I consider myself to be GC and wanted to do a bit of self-analysis and express possible contradictions in my own world view. I think it comes down to the idea of something being "camp" as defined by Susan Sontag and others as self-aware, frivolous and humorous. La Voix is usually Chris and has a clear boundary between his performing persona and his real identity. I do not personally find anything offensive in his drag persona anymore than I did with Lily Savage or Dame Edna but rather would characterise it as way to say the unsayable, or be bolder in a subversively funny way. I appreciate others will disagree with this and happy to engage with them on this. But I do think there is a fundamental difference between that kind of exaggerated self-conscious display and a doctor who solemnly tells a tribunal that they are literally a man because they consider themselves to be so, or to someone whose everyday drag consists of crotch grazing skirts and size 50G fake boobs. I think that stems from a lack of self-awareness and that is why it provokes such discomfiture amongst those of us who perceive it as delusional.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 28/09/2025 11:36

I don't watch drag, so have no idea what Chris's act is normally. Given that Strictly is seen to be 'family viewing' with a large number of children in the audience, I'd expect he would have dialled down (and been told to dial down) any sexualised/risque elements - to play the pantomime dame, as it were. Is that his usual style of performance? No idea. But I would not expect his act on Strictly to offend.

Having just reminded myself that there's a large number of children in the audience, I would question if this constant pushing by the BBC of drag into the national consciousness is a good idea. Having it pushed at you from a young age that men in dresses is normal and fun is a safeguarding risk IMO.

"I think it comes down to the idea of something being "camp" as defined by Susan Sontag and others as self-aware, frivolous and humorous."
I wouldn't know Susan Sontag or her ideas if she bit me. For me it's an affectation, an attempt to appear non-threatening. Whilst that might work on a personal basis, as a wider phenomenon it starts to look like camouflage.

Teribus21 · 28/09/2025 10:40

I have yet to see drag that doesn’t mock women in some way. Surely that’s the whole point of it in the same way that the motivation for black face when mainstream on TV etc. used to be to mock black people. That too was excused as being artistic, kindly meant, subversive etc. Without the fundamental mockery it would have no impact or reason to exist.

deadpan · 28/09/2025 10:21

I'm GC and have no objection to drag. I do have an objection to it being overly sexualised, mocking females or deliberately shocking - like some of the things I've seen people highlight from Ru Paul's Drag Race.
Paul O'Grady made a good point when he said modern drag was just shading and make up.

JamieCannister · 28/09/2025 09:47

I think that hard an fast rules in terms of entertainment would be wrong.

I find the idea that a white man or woman should never ever ever adopt blackface to be silly. In my view the starting point should be "it is potentially deeply offensive, so we better have a very good reason for using blackface". An Al Jolson biopic might require blackface. I am sure there are other contexts too - perhaps in comedy where the laughs are so prevalent, and the comedy so clearly not attacking black people on any level - where blackface is justifiable.

But as a basic rule of thumb "white people don't need to 'black-up'" is probably a good thing to have in mind.

I think the same applies to other protected characteristics.

"Men don't need to pretend to be women" is a damn fine starting point, but it can be done well, not least when done with intelligence and self-awareness.

I would argue that as a general rule adults should not be pretending to be wheelchair bound, or children, or very old either - other than very occasionally for very specific and good reasons.