Faith school where women are banned from wearing trousers becomes state funded

Not really worth being humiliated. But yes it’s fun to run circuits of the school in shorts and a vest top.

Yes they apologised about the au pair and sick child. I went in trousers also to collect her when sick. Both schools would have overlooked that sort of thing (having to turn up at short notice). Both schools also accepted that I wore trousers in my normal
live. There are ultra orthodox Jewish state schools that won’t accept any children whose mothers don’t cover hair / dress modestly at all times. Look up Yesoday Hatorah Senior Girls. There have been a few OSA challenges and on the whole the school has upheld the right to dictate how mothers dress.

gosh the temptation to turn up in a vest top and a pair of trousers is huge.

Nope.

I agree re Jews not trying to change anyone.

I'd argue this is why Sikhs & Hindus are more popular on average than Muslims, which is a reversal from the 1940s when people like Churchill saw Islam as familiarly Abrahamic & Hinduism as suspicious bc polytheistic, idols etc

Hmm...well a few booths does not a caliphate make. Are there a lot in many places? I do see the possible concern. I don't think it's intrinsically bad though as long as it stays small-scale like Jehovah's Witnesses and doesn't become insistent etc

I'm pretty sure I didn't use the word aggressive. But there are several booths along Oxford Street of Muslims trying to convert passers by. Perhaps next time I'm there I'll take some photos.

Really? Been to central London recently & didn't see aggressive Muslim preachers. I can believe it though...

I don't think leaflet handing etc should be banned but they shouldn't be aggressive.

That and the fact wherever you go in Central London there are Muslims trying to convert you (which some see as trying to take over the host country). It's not that Orthodox Jews are White (I think Stormfront disagrees, BTW), but that they stick to their own and don't try to change anyone else.

Absolutely. I mean I’m being PC here, because personally I have a huge issue with the subjugation of women in religion, including my own which is why I’m extremely secular! But I don’t think we can impose our disapproval (couldn’t think of a better word) on these people because the ones who cover their women and enforce certain dress codes etc are usually the more extreme of the spectrum and there’s not much helping them.

I guess the reminders in the newsletter are fine, like the considerate parking reminders we get all the time.
But I’m quite shocked they would stop a guardian collecting a sick child.
Thanks, I was really wondering how strict it would be!

At the primary school women often turned up in skirts deemed too short for pick up. They kept on reminding people in the school newsletter.

At the secondary school I once had to send my au pair to collect DD as she was ill. The security man on the door said she can’t enter in trousers!! I had I call the school office and go ballistic that they’d called me in the middle of the day to get DD and now FFS let my au pair in to collect her.

Out of interest, what would that school have done if a parent came to the school for a play or a parents evening not wearing the correct clothes?

Interesting thread.

Personally, I don't have an issue with religious schools being state-funded as long as they comply with the law. This includes what they teach in lessons and how they enforce dress codes.

I would hope that the vast majority of students at this school are there because the school is their preferred choice. In this case, I would imagine that the dress code is supported by these families. Presumably some of the families want leniency for their non-practising au pairs and nannies, or there would be no need for the exceptions that already exist.

If my child was allocated a place in a religious school, despite not having listed it on the application, as an atheist I wouldn't expect the school to enforce religious dress codes on my child or me. It's one thing me voluntarily wearing a shawl to cover my shoulders when visiting a mosque/synagogue/cathedral (I have done all 3) - because it's my choice to go into these religious places of worship - but it's quite another enforcing such religious adherence on non-believers at a state-funded school.

AFAIK there is no law that would allow a religious school to force a child or a visiting parent to wear religiously compliant attire. I should imagine it comes down to the difference between having "respect for" and not enforcing "compliance with" - and that any attempt at enforcement could be challenged as discrimination of the basis of the PC of belief (which also includes the right to non-belief).

TBH my first course of action if my child were to be allocated such a place would be to appeal the decision ⬇️

National Secular Society advice

They will sort if if pushed my DD wasn’t at a Jewish 6th form college and her A level economics exam was on a Jewish festival. Arrangements were made for her to sit it the next day.

Yes rare. If a Jew is that observant then they would probably go to a Jewish school. I once had to take an exam on Yom Kippur which even secular Jews usually adhere to and I was told they couldn’t accommodate me, so I did it. I’m not religious and it wasn’t a huge deal so I managed. But it would be nice if there was more awareness not cloaked in racism (like offering halal options etc) for our diverse society.

Sigh. My kids state funded primary school (not the one mentioned) and my DD’s state funded high school had those rules. For teachers, pupils and parents visiting the site.

Haredi and Hasidic Jews really do give Jews a bad name. I don’t like generalising, but I will in this case! Even secular Jews find their customs and behaviour foreign and primitive. However, they are certainly not indicative of the majority of Jews and anyway, so what? People - all people - can behave badly and not in line with how we would behave. I understand someone who has had to work in a large Haredi community struggling with their behaviour, which I would too. But it doesn’t matter because one should not be judging an entire race on the actions of very few.

All races and religions require special treatment in one way or another. That’s why we accept living in a diverse society, because we are willing to accommodate their needs also. A religious Muslim woman is within her rights to ask for a female Dr, if available, and halal food choices. There are many other examples. While I’m not a fan of the ultra orthodox community for many reasons, if their religious needs can be accommodated then they should be.

You didn’t say that, but it’s your position, nevertheless. You are saying that the equality act should not apply to the school. That it’s okay for a public or commercial institution to disadvantage women and girls because it’s part of the religious belief that formed its foundation.

I knew a girl at school who in RS mentioned that she'd had a Jewish friend in primary who was allowed to leave school a bit early each Friday for Shabbat. Probs that's rare though, surely?

Depends on how observant they are. The UK doesn’t accommodate all religions because it can’t, so observant jews would need to make their own provisions (more especially in the winter) on Friday if they are observant. Orthodox Jews don’t represent the Jewish majority by any stretch of the imagination. They are extreme and primitive in their views and ethics and literal in their interpretation of the religion. They are like any tight knit orthodox religious group in that they tend to live in the same areas and have shops catering to them and synagogues close by.
There are only 250,000 Jews in the whole of the uk and the majority are integrated into regular society and schools. The school in the OP and continued discussion is relevant only for a small number of uk residents, probably around 40-50 thousand.

It's actually deeply concerning that someone with such a strong prejudice and a strange obsession with racially/ethnically profiling Jews ("They" ticking white and Jewish on what I assume is a confidential form you have no right to discuss in any public capacity would make them mixed ethnicity btw) has access to any Jewish women in a healthcare capacity, particularly vulnerable women in childbirth. Really disturbing.