Faith school where women are banned from wearing trousers becomes state funded

I think in a multi-cultural society in which belief or faith is a protected characteristic you have to permit faith schools...so long as they have regulatory over-sight so as to ensure they are complying with necessary safeguards, instructions and national curriculums.

You can't speak for all Jews, it would be a bit like saying you don't believe what Louis Theroux says about the Westboro Baptists because you know some Anglicans who aren't like that. I think my Jewish friend knows what the rules are in her Synagogue and she wouldn't get in a car on Shabbos even if it was driven by a non Jew.

A lot of the time they may be identifiable as Jewish though, esp if they are Orthodox and wear traditional dress.

We let ALL faith schools, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, set their own rules.

The question is whether we should

Right. But then we get to the argument that overwhelmingly, very religious Jews/Muslims tend to not be wealthy. I don’t know where I stand on this!

European Jews - let’s say Eastern European because Western European Jews tend to be Sephardic - may be from Eastern Europe, but their ancestors were from the Middle East. There aren’t really suitable boxes to tick for Jews because you can be a brown Yemenite Jew, or a Black Ethiopian Jew, or Sephardic in which case there isn’t an adequate description on the census for this.

If people want specific accommodations that can’t be fitted into a normal school day/year then you set up a private school.

I'd say most Jewish people identify as Jewish...but there usually isn't an appropriate box to tick. It is others who are choosing, for whatever reason, to classify Jewish people as white - usually for political reasons, or from an incomplete set of assumptions about 'identity' and an essential misunderstanding of Jewish culture and the Jewish diaspora,

@Shortshriftandlethalespecially if the boxes you can tick are limited.

Of course Robin is also using the word " white" as a pejorative, and as an indicator of intersectional 'privilege' rather than intersectional 'oppression'.

@CatchingtheCati was more addressing how that works in practice as in so we have no religious/ denominational/ non denominational schools? Especially when these schools are popular for those reasons. Eg my parents sent me to a faith school (as there was none for our religion in the area) purely as it was a faith school.

I get what you are saying though.

You don't know what someone's 'heritage' is just by them ticking a box.

("I'm not going to argue with someone who's heritage is totally European")

I hear you. But if that would be the case then so many accommodations would have to be made for children from specific religious backgrounds. I’m not sure how one would do that in a diverse society.

If you mean CoE or Catholic schools then these are denominational schools. Other ‘generic’ state schools are non-denominational Christian schools.

I am not sure how we would go about that @CurlewKate. Even in the area I teach in there are lots of faith schools (and they are popular) with religious ethos. Do you think they should all go? As far as I know even the ones partially funded by the diocese have some state funding.

As an ashkenazi Jew, I hate filling out forms. Makes me feel horrible. There is no space for me to fill out. I happen to have white non-Jewish ancestry on one side so I do tick white but I don't think Jews are 100% white. (In the same way Irish Travellors are not 'white', or Irish immgrants to the US 100 years ago.)

I often write other and Ashkenazi Jew (this is especially relevant for medical forms I feel)

The particular school being talked about here happens to be a sefardic school (for Jewish kids of Middle Eastern/North African heritage) founded by Iraqi Jews.

So they probably wouldn't describe themselves as white.

I am not very familier with this particular school, although I think I know one family who sent their kids there and they are what I would describe as modern Orthdox (engage fully with the secular world eg send to university, go to theatres, and have professional jobs, but also keep Torah and mitzvot)

Very very different to Hasidic Jews in Stamford Hill.

Religion should have no place in any state funded institutions.

Schools are not public spaces, they can stop you from entering.

Faith schools are adhering to a faith so they also adhere to dress codes according to that faith. They’re asking for visitation dress modestly whatever that means, but they can’t and shouldn’t enforce it. Personally if I’m visiting a Muslim school to pick up a child and I’m wearing shorts and a vest, then that’s my right. However I probably would try to respect their culture within their faith environment. That’s all.

This is a Jewish school. Sounds like an anti-semitic attack tbh. Mind, I don't see how the school is able to enforce any of this!

Urgh, I didn’t want to comment on anything you wrote but I have to. Again, because it obviously wasn’t clear the first two times I explained it, there isn’t a suitable option for Jews because we are a race, not a specific colour. Jews are originally from Judea in the Middle East, so not white. Uk Jews don’t have an option for “Jewish” so they have to tick something else. Usually, because many uk Jews came from Eastern Europe, they know that they are perceived as white so they tick white, other. It’s not right or fair that there is no other option, but that’s why the statistics show this as being the majority choice. There isn’t a brown option, or a Jewish option. Anyway, I don’t understand why that matters. I also don’t understand why you felt pressured to release orthodox mothers before other mothers to accommodate Shabbat requirements. You could have said no! As you rightly pointed out, there’s no reason other than their religious needs to make concessions for them. They don’t live in a Jewish country, therefore you can say no. Either they stay until the end of Shabbat or they leave when you say they leave and deal with it. Your resentment is based on you feeling that these women were entitled, because their religious beliefs meant they couldn’t travel over Shabbat. You either happily try to help, or you refuse and then don’t feel resentment. I understand your issue with them, as I’ve already stated on this thread, the orthodox community are a pain in the ass! But that doesn’t justify your obvious bias, borderline hatred against them.

And honestly, this is just the work edition of "Some of my best friends are Jewish".

Whoosh. So fixated on the "whiteness" of Jewish people to the exclusion of all else.

Yes and people tell us in data. We wouldn't know that most Jewish people identify as white unless they both identified as Jewish and white somewhere that we collect data. That is obvious.

Why does this fact trouble you so?