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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science

363 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 18:02

In The War on Science, Dawkins joins several scientists and philosophers contending that academic freedom and truth in universities was being stifled by diversity, equity and inclusion policies that promoted falsehoods under the banner of social justice.

“I draw the line at the belligerent slogan ‘trans women are women’ because it is scientifically false,” he said. “When taken literally, it can infringe the rights of other people, especially women.

“It logically entails the right to enter women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s prisons and so on.

“So powerful has this postmodern counter-factualism become, that newspapers refer to ‘her penis’ as a matter of unremarked routine.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/richard-dawkins-trans-women-slogan-scientifically-false/ and at https://archive.is/zAFxS

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
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Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:24

Evidence that Greer has dementia please?

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 11:24

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:00

Yep that was my reply. Can you elaborate on other issues that I missed? I re read it & am not sure.

Thank you Howseitgoin.

Well, how about things like the weight that should be give to facts and feelings in forming social policy?

The absence of a clear definition of gender which does not rely on referring back to gender?

The difference between people's feelings about their sex at birth, and the fact of their sex at birth?

The weight that a democratic society should give to the feelings of tiny proportion of the population who feel they their gender is not the same as their sex?

But it's up to you to go into more detail in response to my post, your posts are getting shorter so you may have limited time and I understand that.

I have to add that your comment about G.Greer's age, and developing dementia, was incredibly nasty and offensive.

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:23

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 22:20

Dawkins is a world class scientist so he knows only too well no one is suggesting reproductive categories don't exist rather ‘Sex’ is often semantically flattened into a binary model, for which individuals are classified as either ‘female’ or ‘male.’ A more expansive definition of sex is bimodal—with most individuals falling within one of two peaks of a trait distribution. However, even a bimodal model is an oversimplification, since ‘sex’ comprises multiple traits, with variable distributions. Individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in female- and male-specific ways or persist across an organism’s lifespan. Reliance on strict binary categories of sex fails to accurately capture the diverse and nuanced nature of sex.

In other words, the guy knows better but is looking for pay back after the left hung him out to dry.

Not " sex is bimodal, not binary" again. 🙄Until you or another proponent of this obfuscatory twaddle can point to the third gamete, I'll stick with the age-old pattern of males producing small gametes and females large ones which has ensured the continuation of all species which reproduce sexually. Social roles have nothing to do with whether someone is male or female. They are socially constructed, unlike the reproductive systems of males and females.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 26/09/2025 11:22

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

How about the Greer that published The Female Eunuch in 1970, the year the courts declared April Ashley a man?

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:21

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:19

Your woman hating slip is showing again.

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with being senile? Plenty of 86 year olds have it.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:19

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Your woman hating slip is showing again.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:19

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 11:17

Germaine Greer has dementia now?!

I must admit Howse, I did ask for novel arguments. I didn’t think “lying about the wellbeing of a famous feminist” would be one of them though.

Wikipedia ‘evidence’ incoming!

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:18

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 10:21

Trans acceptance is a relative new social phenomena so we are still in the process of 'ironing out' wrinkles so I don't think its accurate to say there hasn't been any progress.

It’s still no.

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 11:17

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 10:56

I’m still trying to understand how we decide who gets to take a dump in the ladies lavs. It’s sounding like some sort of test to measure neuroticism and agreeableness is now in order

Perhaps one of those multiple choice questionnaires that magazines used to run? Mostly As? To the gents with you! With today's technology they could run them through a touch pad on the door of the bogs. The entrance to the men's could be a trap door that, unbeknownst, you're standing on...with a slide!

Obviously, trips to the loo will need to take into account the extra time needed to take the test and the additional queueing.

Or just go to the correct toilet for your sex.

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 11:17

Germaine Greer has dementia now?!

I must admit Howse, I did ask for novel arguments. I didn’t think “lying about the wellbeing of a famous feminist” would be one of them though.

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 11:17

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Ageism as well as sexism in your posts?

No surprise there.

"Aged care" is not the same as dementia care FYI

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 11:13

So it’s some sort of analysis of life experience that decides if you belong in the ladies lavs now?

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:16

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:15

Housing as in prisons, hospitals, hostels.

Compromises as in some trans women can compete in sports if they can prove they don't have a male advantage, the provision of separate unisex loos etc, private rooms in hospitals, & housing that won't put trans at risk in prisons.

They’re men, so it’s still no.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:15

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

Your comprehension abilities are truly lacking, she is unequivocal in that clip and there is absolutely no verifiable evidence that she has dementia. FYI, Wikipedia is not, I repeat not, a verifiable source. Try harder.

Merrymouse · 26/09/2025 11:15

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 11:13

So it’s some sort of analysis of life experience that decides if you belong in the ladies lavs now?

Perhaps there will be personality quizzes?

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:15

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 10:55

Yes, I agree these are examples of progress. Progress in upholding women's rights (apart from housing, not sure what you mean there).

These are not "compromises" as Bernard asked you to define. These are examples of progress for women and girls.

Housing as in prisons, hospitals, hostels.

Compromises as in some trans women can compete in sports if they can prove they don't have a male advantage, the provision of separate unisex loos etc, private rooms in hospitals, & housing that won't put trans at risk in prisons.

CassOle · 26/09/2025 11:15

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

Transwomen are men.

I don't care what you think.

Merrymouse · 26/09/2025 11:14

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

& some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses.

Or in other words, some men have life experiences that are similar to some women and vice versa.

As 'cis' and 'trans' are completely subjective describers that can be used by anyone to mean what every they want, they don't mean much.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 26/09/2025 11:14

Dawkins' focus here, as with his criticisms of other religions, is on the undesireability of allowing unfalsifiable metaphysical propositions to override empiricism. His attention was snagged when it became apparent that transgenderism was being treated, not as a harmless legal fiction, but literally true.

I doubt that he was previously any more complaisant about the harms to women than the rest of society, which (apart from Germaine Greer - what a woman!) did not see this coming. (If it had, the female employees in Croft v Royal Mail would have been parties to the litigation, not just a passing mention in the judgment.)

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 11:13

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

So it’s some sort of analysis of life experience that decides if you belong in the ladies lavs now?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:12

SourdoughMama · 25/09/2025 19:19

Dawkins is one Author of the 39(?) who contribute to the book.

Most of whom were notable friends of Epstein ( including the editor who put the book together, or have well know history of sexual assault, or racism when you actually look into their backgrounds.

But hey sure, creepy men to predate on their students is totally what feminism is all about (/s)

I wonder if Dawkins is on the Epstein List as well ?

Surely you have absolute proof of this, because they are serious allegations?

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

CassOle · 26/09/2025 11:00

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

Imnobody4 · 26/09/2025 11:08

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 05:32

His obvious expertise in such matters is why he's deliberately over simplifying the binary reproductive system by not including bi/multi modal sex distinctions.

What you mean there's another reproductive system? ‐ do enlighten us

Merrymouse · 26/09/2025 11:07

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 10:54

"Women's liberation", she wrote in The Whole Woman (1999), "did not see the female's potential in terms of the male's actual." She argues instead that liberation is about asserting difference and "insisting on it as a condition of self-definition and self-determination". It is a struggle for the freedom of women to "define their own values, order their own priorities and decide their own fate".[b]

Germaine Greer certainly did not mean men could identify as women, but if you think she is contradicting herself you will have to take that up with her.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 11:01

Igneococcus · 26/09/2025 10:55

All this just so men can get their dicks out in women's single sex spaces.

It’s just another flavour of the creepy man who won’t fucking stop trying to wheedle and bargain away your ‘no’ (and if no one is looking will probably try to use force to override your ‘no’ too), because the idea that women are entitled to boundaries simply does not compute for him. It just so happens that this man is wearing a blouse and eyeliner

we have to rely on the law to protect us from such people