Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science

363 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 18:02

In The War on Science, Dawkins joins several scientists and philosophers contending that academic freedom and truth in universities was being stifled by diversity, equity and inclusion policies that promoted falsehoods under the banner of social justice.

“I draw the line at the belligerent slogan ‘trans women are women’ because it is scientifically false,” he said. “When taken literally, it can infringe the rights of other people, especially women.

“It logically entails the right to enter women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s prisons and so on.

“So powerful has this postmodern counter-factualism become, that newspapers refer to ‘her penis’ as a matter of unremarked routine.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/richard-dawkins-trans-women-slogan-scientifically-false/ and at https://archive.is/zAFxS

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:59

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

Stop pretending that is what you said about her.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:55

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:49

Wow you really do your best to smear anyone who has arguments you don't like, don't you?

Greer is quoted as saying Caitlyn Jenner transitioned only because she was jealous of the Kardashian sisters limelight so if anyone enjoyed a good smear its GG.

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:55

Btw, can anyone point me towards someone who produces both sperm as well as ova? As I have always learned that is scientifically impossible due to genetics. Even for someone who is xy and develops in the female pathway, their ovaries are streaks and don't function.

As that very long article quoted above said that and it strikes me as false (and thereby destroys the 'sex is bimodal' thing

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:50

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

She also interviewed on the ABC with David Wenham.

But apparently... she has completely disappeared. Strange that a woman in her 80s would abide by lock down rules and not be giving interviews. I notice she doesn't really seem the type to give 'zoom' interviews.

She has also been rather vocal about elder care for female people for the past 10 years. Maybe a man doesn't read articles about elder care for female people... I can image why.

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:49

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Wow you really do your best to smear anyone who has arguments you don't like, don't you?

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 11:49

Even a senile Germaine Greer would talk more sense than any gender addled tra.

Wasn't there something about a correlation between wrong sex hormones and dementia (amongst the plethora of other health problems caused by gender affirming 'care')?

JustSpeculation · 26/09/2025 11:48

Igneococcus · 26/09/2025 07:22

It's basically Lewontin's argument about race transferred to sex.

Thank you for this. I had been assuming that the "sex is bimodal" assertion was based in simple ignorance of how statistics work. But it now becomes much clearer why the error was made if you see it as as an attempt to apply Lewontin to sex. Race is not observable as a biological fact outside secondary characteristics (secondary in that they are not themselves race, but things like skin colour). It can only be described biologically through statistics. Sex, however, is observable as a clear, explainable reproductive strategy in itself, and independently of secondary characteristics.

Have I got that right? Does it make sense?

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:48

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 07:01

"The only thing that matters for the definition of sex is reproduction"

Depends on the context though. And in the context of the legitimacy of trans & intersex people which is what Dawkins is pontificating on, the variations that the reproductive system is capable of producing is relevant to this discussion.

IE the context here isn't about the normal outcomes rather the abnormal ones & how they are categorised in society.

Trans people and those with differences of sexual development are still either biologically male or female, since DSD's are sex-specific. Gender identity, if you believe in it, is entirely in the mind, whereas reproductive sex is all about the body.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:47

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

She had mobility issues after a fall. She felt she could no longer live independently.

I would hardly think that her coming out of covid lockdowns and doing several international interviews over the past few years since is her 'complete disappearance from public life'.

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 11:46

😂

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 11:44

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

Did she mention Howse during it? I think that’s why he thinks she has dementia, she’s forgotten who he is #sadtimes

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:41

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

A man has arrived to tell us that GG has dementia, but the evidence for this is obviously a secret because, astonishingly, he can’t provide it 😳 so that should be the end of the matter. Absolutely barking 😂😂

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 11:40

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

"widely rumoured" 😂That's your evidence?

As I said "aged care" is not specifically dementia care

"Her complete disappearance from public life" could be attributed to the fact that she's mid-80s and bloody knackered, no?

Edited to add: she put herself into aged care. She wasn't "admitted" to it - you keep trying to suggest she has failing mental capacity.

She still knows what a woman is.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:37

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:36

Wikipedia? The site which can be modified by anyone with an axe to grind and which has no named authors of any entry? THAT's your clincher? 😂😂

He loves a Wikipedia link, he thinks it’s evidence 😂😂

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:37

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

Please provide the evidence that Germaine Greer believed "some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women".

I don't believe that she believed that at all, so I look forward to you linking up where she indicated that she did believe this.

And that as a statement is irrelevant. Because male people can be said to have 'experiences' that are 'similar to' female people's experiences. That doesn't mean that anyone in society has to change policies or laws to give them access to female single sex provisions.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 11:24

Thank you Howseitgoin.

Well, how about things like the weight that should be give to facts and feelings in forming social policy?

The absence of a clear definition of gender which does not rely on referring back to gender?

The difference between people's feelings about their sex at birth, and the fact of their sex at birth?

The weight that a democratic society should give to the feelings of tiny proportion of the population who feel they their gender is not the same as their sex?

But it's up to you to go into more detail in response to my post, your posts are getting shorter so you may have limited time and I understand that.

I have to add that your comment about G.Greer's age, and developing dementia, was incredibly nasty and offensive.

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:36

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 00:08

How genes influence behaviour? If you really want me to….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_genetics

Wikipedia? The site which can be modified by anyone with an axe to grind and which has no named authors of any entry? THAT's your clincher? 😂😂

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:34

Misquoted.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:31

Igneococcus · 26/09/2025 10:55

All this just so men can get their dicks out in women's single sex spaces.

Yep.

This really is more wheedling. It is a case of, if someone can just find the right angle to convince women to allow male people to be included in the their sex class then it will all fall into place.

The constant pressure to accept personality traits which are malleable and changeable as a basis of categorisation of sex for the access to female single sex provisions is getting more absurd by the day. The contorting to make it fit must be excruciating to maintain.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 11:29

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:21

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with being senile? Plenty of 86 year olds have it.

Your inability to grasp facts is really disappointing, but predictable. GG isn’t ‘senile’ which you well know, you’re just hoping she is because that would be a way to discredit her. Imagine being so sad that an 86 year old woman seriously grinds your gears that you make up lies about her 😂

Sad, sad man in these sad, sad times.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 11:29

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Quite aside from the fact that you repeat asinine bollocks over and over again, what a thoroughly unpleasant individual you also prove yourself to be

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:28

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 10:54

"Women's liberation", she wrote in The Whole Woman (1999), "did not see the female's potential in terms of the male's actual." She argues instead that liberation is about asserting difference and "insisting on it as a condition of self-definition and self-determination". It is a struggle for the freedom of women to "define their own values, order their own priorities and decide their own fate".[b]

Great quote by Germain!

Did you notice that she doesn't talk at all about 'averages' of behaviour? In fact, I read that and understand that she means the complete opposite.