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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science

363 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 18:02

In The War on Science, Dawkins joins several scientists and philosophers contending that academic freedom and truth in universities was being stifled by diversity, equity and inclusion policies that promoted falsehoods under the banner of social justice.

“I draw the line at the belligerent slogan ‘trans women are women’ because it is scientifically false,” he said. “When taken literally, it can infringe the rights of other people, especially women.

“It logically entails the right to enter women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s prisons and so on.

“So powerful has this postmodern counter-factualism become, that newspapers refer to ‘her penis’ as a matter of unremarked routine.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/richard-dawkins-trans-women-slogan-scientifically-false/ and at https://archive.is/zAFxS

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
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ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 20:03

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:24

Ive seen the Netflix show & that's false.

It's well known and even admitted by Jenner that he used to try on his daughter's clothes. He has admitted this himself.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:59

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:03

Ageism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia - quite the collection of repellent behaviours isn't it?

They're all standard character traits for trans activists.

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 19:54

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:11

Most people would choose to not knowingly bring a child with a disability into the world. It is why amniocentesis and other testing exists.

I object, on behalf of people with disabilities, but also on behalf of 'most people' .

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:43

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

There is no such thing as 'cis'.

No male's experiences is anything remotely alike females' experiences.

And that clip was made many, many years before she even went into a nursing home.

teawamutu · 26/09/2025 19:41

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:14

Sex is binary. Male, or female. No Biologist well ever deny this.

Exactly. When Dawkins was asked at a recent public speaking event if sex is really binary, he laughed before describing it as 'one of the few true binaries we have'. (The audience also laughed. Reassuring.)

But I'm sure he would be willing to bow to the superior reasoning and new evidence offered up by a bunch of pronoun people and fetishists from Tumblr and trans Reddit.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:38

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 09:42

Thank you Howseitgoin [I like your username, it makes me want to reply 'Grand thanks, and how's yourself?😁] for this from an article you quote

  • Genetic sex
  • Morphological sex, which includes reproductive organs, external genitalia, gametes and secondary morphological sexual characteristics (sometimes these and genetic sex are referred to collectively as biological sex, but this is problematic for reasons I will go over)
  • Sexual orientation (sexual attraction)
  • Gender identity (how one understands and feels about their own gender)
  • Gender expression (how one expresses their gender to the world)
James Lyons-Weiler “Biology is the biology is the biology“:

It is quite a useful 'Naming of Parts' for discussions around sex and gender.
It's not perfect - 'Gender identity' and 'gender expression' are both defined in terms of 'gender', which is not defined, so it's circular and not very helpful.

But overall it is still quite useful, in that 'gender identity' and 'gender expression' are both defined as feelings, not facts, one being an 'understanding' and the other an 'expression'.

This separation between observable, verifiable facts, and some people's feelings about those facts, is crucial. Feelings, though important, are individual and varied, and can sometimes be totally irrational, or limited to small sections of the population.

For instance, a tiny 0.5% of the population of the UK - that's about quarter of a million people out of over 45 million people - reported on the Census form that the gender they identify with is not the same as their sex as registered at birth. That's an expression of a feeling about their biological sex, whereas their sex as registered at birth is based on observable and verifiable facts, and can be determined by more detailed examination if simple observation is unclear.

So we know how this very small number of people feel about their biological sex. That's very interesting to them and those around them, but there's no justification for using their feelings as a basis for profound legislative or social change.

Howse is his last name.

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2025 19:33

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:31

Trans is an identity in person's head. There is no biological part of it.
Intersex are still either male or female. No biological variation there either.

Identity in someone's head

Aka

Complete fantasy

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:31

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 07:31

Because both these categories are products of biological variation in sex traits.

Trans is an identity in person's head. There is no biological part of it.
Intersex are still either male or female. No biological variation there either.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:30

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 07:22

All caps doesn't qualify as an explanation of why there's a conflation.

Do you even know what caps are? Nothing she wrote is in caps. If you can get something so blatantly obvious wrong....

SinnerBoy · 26/09/2025 19:26

BreatheAndFocus · Today 18:03

Sex is binary. Anyone who thinks otherwise in 2025 is an idiot - or a liar.

Or a lying idiot.

Or an idiotic liar.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:21

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 00:08

How genes influence behaviour? If you really want me to….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_genetics

😂Wikipedia. F*k me dead. Wikipedia is not any kind of valid 'source' for anything.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:14

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 22:20

Dawkins is a world class scientist so he knows only too well no one is suggesting reproductive categories don't exist rather ‘Sex’ is often semantically flattened into a binary model, for which individuals are classified as either ‘female’ or ‘male.’ A more expansive definition of sex is bimodal—with most individuals falling within one of two peaks of a trait distribution. However, even a bimodal model is an oversimplification, since ‘sex’ comprises multiple traits, with variable distributions. Individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in female- and male-specific ways or persist across an organism’s lifespan. Reliance on strict binary categories of sex fails to accurately capture the diverse and nuanced nature of sex.

In other words, the guy knows better but is looking for pay back after the left hung him out to dry.

Sex is binary. Male, or female. No Biologist well ever deny this.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:12

Imnobody4 · 25/09/2025 22:14

From a years old article in 'Vice' a now defunct site.
'Vice News controversy encompasses a range of issues, most notably widespread allegations of a toxic, sexist "boys' club" culture leading to multiple sexual harassment settlements within Vice Media. Further controversies include accusations of biased reporting and censorship related to Saudi Arabian government funding, the use of an offending editor in a Khmer Rouge documentary, and a general struggle to maintain profitability and a sustainable business model, culminating in Vice Media filing for bankruptcy protection in 2023.'
And you've stored it away, a bit creepy. Are you friends with the author?

'Vice News controversy encompasses a range of issues, most notably widespread allegations of a toxic, sexist "boys' club" culture leading to multiple sexual harassment settlements within Vice Media. Further controversies include accusations of biased reporting and censorship related to Saudi Arabian government funding, the use of an offending editor in a Khmer Rouge documentary, and a general struggle to maintain profitability and a sustainable business model, culminating in Vice Media filing for bankruptcy protection in 2023.'

BINGO! HaHA!! Misogynists use misogynist sources.

Tyra Banks Mic Drop GIF by Allure
ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:11

RedLeggedPartridge · 25/09/2025 22:10

Is this the same guy who said foetuses with Downs should be aborted and their parents start again?
I have very low regard for anything he says.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/richard-dawkins-downs-syndrome-disability-b1848956.html

Most people would choose to not knowingly bring a child with a disability into the world. It is why amniocentesis and other testing exists.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:09

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 22:08

I'm saying that anti trans positions are politically expedient/'cleansing'. IE I'm 'questioning' his motives.

And I'm also questioning the motives of those that white wash rape apologists & bigots for their own political expediency.

If SCIENCE AND BIOLOGY is 'anti trans', that should tell you something.

And coming from someone whose entire ideology is entirely about being a rape apologist and bigot, that's rich from you.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:07

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 21:37

Edited

Yeah, and that is a really credible source, lol. You really haven't got the hang of providing actual evidence and actual credible sources I see.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 19:03

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 20:08

Damned for association.

I cant believe yet again a thread is being dumbed down to same old splitism arguements

Let alone the facile, infantile suggestion that in creat a thread that acknowledges a fact, ie a book has been published which includes a statement about the reality of science.

Sometimes I wonder if there are any real living human beings posting on FWR or just 2 opposing chat bots that churn out the usual cliches.

Many campaigns, including for instance equal rights for women, abortion rights were won by those with many political differences who recognised they did share a common cause and it would help that cause to be won, if a broad based coalition worked together to bring it about.

The brainwashed Mens Rights cultists are utterly desperate to 'discredit' anyone that speaks truth and science.

ThatBlackCat · 26/09/2025 18:56

SourdoughMama · 25/09/2025 19:19

Dawkins is one Author of the 39(?) who contribute to the book.

Most of whom were notable friends of Epstein ( including the editor who put the book together, or have well know history of sexual assault, or racism when you actually look into their backgrounds.

But hey sure, creepy men to predate on their students is totally what feminism is all about (/s)

I wonder if Dawkins is on the Epstein List as well ?

Oh, so we're doing Guilt By Association are we? How about we go through the list of Pride heads who have been convicted of paedophilia? Such as Stephen Ireland? Or those who harbour anti-women (pro-trans) views such as politicians, who have been charged with sex offences? Trust me, @SourdoughMama , you don't want to play this game. You really don't. Here is just for starters:
PS Just noticed you're a new user with only 2 posts on your name, both on this thread. Hmmmm
PPs Post proof that the majority of those authors have ever defended Epstein. Sounds like something you made up on the spot.

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
Abominableday · 26/09/2025 18:20

I've found it useful to learn more about what Germaine has been up to these days, so I'm grateful for that!

BreatheAndFocus · 26/09/2025 18:03

Looking forward to reading what Richard Dawkins says. I might be wrong, but I’ve got a hunch that an eminent evolutionary biologist knows more about the number of sexes, than someone who thinks it’s all about characteristics or some such Dumblr fuckwittery 🤣

Sex is binary. Anyone who thinks otherwise in 2025 is an idiot - or a liar.

VoodooQualities · 26/09/2025 17:52

I got to about page 5 of this thread before I could take no more.

'Do I need to read Mein Kampf to know it's disgusting' mentioned literally on page 1.

I despair sometimes, I really do.

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 17:48

I thought you were saying posters shouldn't have given up their time to feed someone's ego.

If that's the case, well it's up to individual posters what they respond to.

If I've misunderstood then that's my fault, I found some of your post hard to follow.

IwantToRetire · 26/09/2025 17:35

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 17:30

If there are rules on what we can post and to whom, these should be stated in the opening post.

Its not about rules.

This is what i mean, these need to attribute to someone something that they cant possibly know.

I was expressing an opinion.

What made you jump to that conclusion.

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Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 17:30

If there are rules on what we can post and to whom, these should be stated in the opening post.

IwantToRetire · 26/09/2025 17:24

I cant believe so many posters having willingly given up their time to effectively just feed the ego of someone who wants to take up your time with their negativity rather than on something with a potential outcome.

Evidenced by with they really thought their throughs or concepts were so important they would start a thread.

And instead is happy they are lost in a thread that nobody would think to start reading to find whatever that concept is.

Or maybe some just find it an end of week letting their hair.

Down.

Hmm
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