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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Well, hello Emma Watson

884 replies

crumpet · 24/09/2025 22:11

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15130209/Harry-Potter-Emma-Watson-treasures-J-K-Rowling-trans-rights.html

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 13:02

crumpet · 29/09/2025 12:23

wonder how long it will be before we see “OMG JKR is so mean to poor Emma who JKR owes so much to”

I've seen a lot of comments along the lines of "Emma is so classy, unlike JKR".

Judge Judy Eye Roll GIF
aold · 29/09/2025 13:00

CrocsNotDocs · 29/09/2025 12:59

I recall she gave a speech at the UN around 15 years ago about how feminism needs to be better at including men. She’s a 100% pick me libfem.

a fun feminist? The kind which centres men?

CrocsNotDocs · 29/09/2025 12:59

I recall she gave a speech at the UN around 15 years ago about how feminism needs to be better at including men. She’s a 100% pick me libfem.

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 12:54

Merrymouse · 29/09/2025 12:50

Which wasn't necessary - other HP actors have side stepped the issue.

I suppose the difference is that EW has made quite a big deal of out being a particular kind of feminist.

Yes, I think that's probably it. Because otherwise there was just no benefit. 2020-25 was one of the less public periods of Emma's life, she didn't have films to promote, and could simply have focused on her business and academic interests.

aold · 29/09/2025 12:53

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 12:50

Absolutely. And while he's another one who isn't short of a few quid, he didn't get paid as much as Emma or Daniel- those two are the best placed not to have to give a shit.

Or there's even Evanna Lynch, who evidently doesn't agree with everything JKR has said on the issue but still managed to be more balanced, despite not having the same fuck you money as Emma and Daniel.

gosh, if I had a fiver for everyone who’s said they don’t agree with everything JKR said, without then being able to elaborate on exactly what the thing is they don’t agree on, I’d be rich!

Merrymouse · 29/09/2025 12:51

aold · 29/09/2025 12:46

Tom Felton (Malfoy) managed to stay out of the in depth conversation whilst making it subtly clear that he supports JKR. Radcliffe and Watson could learn from him.

As far as I know Tom Felton doesn't have a side hustle as a spokesperson.

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 12:50

aold · 29/09/2025 12:46

Tom Felton (Malfoy) managed to stay out of the in depth conversation whilst making it subtly clear that he supports JKR. Radcliffe and Watson could learn from him.

Absolutely. And while he's another one who isn't short of a few quid, he didn't get paid as much as Emma or Daniel- those two are the best placed not to have to give a shit.

Or there's even Evanna Lynch, who evidently doesn't agree with everything JKR has said on the issue but still managed to be more balanced, despite not having the same fuck you money as Emma and Daniel.

Merrymouse · 29/09/2025 12:50

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 11:44

That was quite a read.

Emma passing that note is more evidence, imho, that she was hoping to ride the two horses. This isn't the same as trying to be balanced or neutral, it's actively attempting to court approval and relationships with both sides.

Which wasn't necessary - other HP actors have side stepped the issue.

I suppose the difference is that EW has made quite a big deal of out being a particular kind of feminist.

user9637 · 29/09/2025 12:48

JazzyJelly · 29/09/2025 12:22

To be fair, I believe the one who was Harry Potter was very involved with a gay rights charity which pivoted to trans. He did an interview with a bunch of kids who would prefer to be the opposite sex to promote it.

I think he's given it the usual 'gay rights are good, this is an extension of that, so must also be good'.

We were ALL fed that crap. But then women have been screaming at the top of their lungs about this, as with his close friend JKR. All he had to do was listen.

There’s few more hurtful things than your friend thinking you must be a bigot because they couldn’t be bothered to listen to you

aold · 29/09/2025 12:46

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 12:40

I think both of their relative situations and the different ways in which they've behaved badly both just illustrate how deeply entrenched sexism is, tbh.

While both could've stayed out of it or tried to be more nuanced, if they'd spoken in JKRs favour, Emma would've likely got more criticism and death threats than Dan. A greater societal expectation to 'be kind' falls on her than him, hence she's the one who felt she needed to send a half arsed note after the backstabbing. Now that the pendulum is swinging the other way, Emma's the one who felt the need to try and walk it back first. And lastly, JKR mentions here that she had many invitations to comment on Emma specifically. She doesn't say if she had the same number for Dan, but I suspect not. Two women criticising each other is easier to cover in a sensationalist way.

Tom Felton (Malfoy) managed to stay out of the in depth conversation whilst making it subtly clear that he supports JKR. Radcliffe and Watson could learn from him.

SionnachRuadh · 29/09/2025 12:45

Well, I suppose actors are suckers for taking up causes. Sometimes it's blatant PR (if Alec Baldwin is involved in a scandal, you can bet he's going to spend the next year caring about the environment) but at least as often it's because their job is pretending to be what they're not, and reading lines written by other people, and even if they aren't very self-aware they have a vague sense of being fake and want something authentic in their lives. That's how you get the activist actor.

Some are very serious about their causes and become knowledgeable about them - the late Robert Redford was a good example. Most are pretty unthinking about their causes - remember actors get famous through being good looking and charismatic, and many of them just aren't very bright, and as JKR says, if they get rich and famous at a young age they have no knowledge of the real world.

In Dan's case he has long term patronised the Trevor Project, which is a gay suicide prevention charity that pivoted to trans advocacy, and I don't think he's thought about trans beyond assuming it's an extension of gay, but I think his association with TP means a lot to him emotionally. Which is fine, and it would be more fine if he were articulate enough to state his own position without feeling the need to contradict JKR every time she speaks, as if she's an embarrassing aunt.

I'd be more concerned, if I were Dan and Emma, that I'm well into adulthood and still so strongly identified with a role from 25 years ago that they feel they have to be representatives for that world. Where will they be 25 years hence? Dan, if you're reading this, take a look at Mark Hamill's Bluesky for an awful glimpse at one possible future.

DialSquare · 29/09/2025 12:44

ThatCyanCat · 29/09/2025 12:16

Aren't you glad she's on our side?

More than I can express.

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 29/09/2025 12:40

Newsenmum · 29/09/2025 12:25

Wowza.
Im more pissed at Dan though. I feel like Emma was genuinely conflicted and feels guilty.

I think both of their relative situations and the different ways in which they've behaved badly both just illustrate how deeply entrenched sexism is, tbh.

While both could've stayed out of it or tried to be more nuanced, if they'd spoken in JKRs favour, Emma would've likely got more criticism and death threats than Dan. A greater societal expectation to 'be kind' falls on her than him, hence she's the one who felt she needed to send a half arsed note after the backstabbing. Now that the pendulum is swinging the other way, Emma's the one who felt the need to try and walk it back first. And lastly, JKR mentions here that she had many invitations to comment on Emma specifically. She doesn't say if she had the same number for Dan, but I suspect not. Two women criticising each other is easier to cover in a sensationalist way.

ThatCyanCat · 29/09/2025 12:30

Beowulfa · 29/09/2025 12:24

I'm struggling to see a way out of this for Watson, other than apologising for not thinking deeply and trying to please everyone.

I suppose she'll just hope it all blows over by the time her collection of short stories, poems and celebrity lifestyle advice (entitled Nice Lovely Things for Sad Times) is released.

Foreword by Dolores Umbridge.

aold · 29/09/2025 12:28

JazzyJelly · 29/09/2025 12:22

To be fair, I believe the one who was Harry Potter was very involved with a gay rights charity which pivoted to trans. He did an interview with a bunch of kids who would prefer to be the opposite sex to promote it.

I think he's given it the usual 'gay rights are good, this is an extension of that, so must also be good'.

yes, but without much thought about it, so no excuse for it. None of these now adult actors have given any nuanced thought to it.

Newsenmum · 29/09/2025 12:25

DialSquare · 29/09/2025 11:09

JKR’s response below (copied from Nitter)

J.K. Rowling@jk_rowling11m
I'm seeing quite a bit of comment about this, so I want to make a couple of points.

I'm not owed eternal agreement from any actor who once played a character I created. The idea is as ludicrous as me checking with the boss I had when I was twenty-one for what opinions I should hold these days.

Emma Watson and her co-stars have every right to embrace gender identity ideology. Such beliefs are legally protected, and I wouldn't want to see any of them threatened with loss of work, or violence, or death, because of them.

However, Emma and Dan in particular have both made it clear over the last few years that they think our former professional association gives them a particular right - nay, obligation - to critique me and my views in public. Years after they finished acting in Potter, they continue to assume the role of de facto spokespeople for the world I created.

When you've known people since they were ten years old it's hard to shake a certain protectiveness. Until quite recently, I hadn't managed to throw off the memory of children who needed to be gently coaxed through their dialogue in a big scary film studio. For the past few years, I've repeatedly declined invitations from journalists to comment on Emma specifically, most notably on the Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Ironically, I told the producers that I didn't want her to be hounded as the result of anything I said.

The television presenter in the attached clip highlights Emma's 'all witches' speech, and in truth, that was a turning point for me, but it had a postscript that hurt far more than the speech itself. Emma asked someone to pass on a handwritten note from her to me, which contained the single sentence 'I'm so sorry for what you're going through' (she has my phone number). This was back when the death, rape and torture threats against me were at their peak, at a time when my personal security measures had had to be tightened considerably and I was constantly worried for my family's safety. Emma had just publicly poured more petrol on the flames, yet thought a one line expression of concern from her would reassure me of her fundamental sympathy and kindness.

Like other people who've never experienced adult life uncushioned by wealth and fame, Emma has so little experience of real life she's ignorant of how ignorant she is. She'll never need a homeless shelter. She's never going to be placed on a mixed sex public hospital ward. I'd be astounded if she's been in a high street changing room since childhood. Her 'public bathroom' is single occupancy and comes with a security man standing guard outside the door. Has she had to strip off in a newly mixed-sex changing room at a council-run swimming pool? Is she ever likely to need a state-run rape crisis centre that refuses to guarantee an all-female service? To find herself sharing a prison cell with a male rapist who's identified into the women's prison?

I wasn't a multimillionaire at fourteen. I lived in poverty while writing the book that made Emma famous. I therefore understand from my own life experience what the trashing of women's rights in which Emma has so enthusiastically participated means to women and girls without her privileges.

The greatest irony here is that, had Emma not decided in her most recent interview to declare that she loves and treasures me - a change of tack I suspect she's adopted because she's noticed full-throated condemnation of me is no longer quite as fashionable as it was - I might never have been this honest.

Adults can't expect to cosy up to an activist movement that regularly calls for a friend's assassination, then assert their right to the former friend's love, as though the friend was in fact their mother. Emma is rightly free to disagree with me and indeed to discuss her feelings about me in public - but I have the same right, and I've finally decided to exercise it.

Wowza.
Im more pissed at Dan though. I feel like Emma was genuinely conflicted and feels guilty.

Mmmnotsure · 29/09/2025 12:25

I do not know where we would be now if she were not on our side.

Her point about not being Emma Watson's mother is important. It holds true for a great deal of this movement. Any of us who have wrangled toddlers recognise the tactics and lack of self-regulation. Every woman will recognise the misogyny that underlies it. The extent to which gender ideology turns children against parents and tells them that their mothers don't love them if they won't validate their identity is deliberate. It is an acknowledgement that parents, mothers, who are the people most likely to know and love the child, and the ones most likely to want to protect them, get in the way.

JKR knows this. Her books were a love song for her own mother and the protection that a mother's love gives a child.

Beowulfa · 29/09/2025 12:24

I'm struggling to see a way out of this for Watson, other than apologising for not thinking deeply and trying to please everyone.

I suppose she'll just hope it all blows over by the time her collection of short stories, poems and celebrity lifestyle advice (entitled Nice Lovely Things for Sad Times) is released.

Columbidae · 29/09/2025 12:23

I hope it allows JKR to somewhat move on from the clear hurt she has sustained.

She has made her feelings clear and drawn a line under it. Hopefully EW finally leaves her alone.

crumpet · 29/09/2025 12:23

wonder how long it will be before we see “OMG JKR is so mean to poor Emma who JKR owes so much to”

OP posts:
JazzyJelly · 29/09/2025 12:22

aold · 29/09/2025 12:18

Watson and co have given all of 2 minutes consideration to a vitally important issue and repeated a meaningless be kind mantra , like five year olds. It’s now coming back to haunt them, isn’t it?

To be fair, I believe the one who was Harry Potter was very involved with a gay rights charity which pivoted to trans. He did an interview with a bunch of kids who would prefer to be the opposite sex to promote it.

I think he's given it the usual 'gay rights are good, this is an extension of that, so must also be good'.

Bedheadbeachbum · 29/09/2025 12:21

I appreciate JKRs honestly, the whole thing makes me feel very sad.

Just very sad that she was fed to the wolves by these spoilt, privileged child stars who felt they were better than her. I've had 'bosses' who have given me breaks and changed my career, I don't think I'd ever publicly betray them, but then like JKR would say, I've had a real life, not an entitled one.

I'm glad she's standing firm because I can't imagine what hell she's gone through with death threats etc etc. And these child stars are playing a purity game.

It just gives me the ick. And here JKR is spelling out that yes this is exactly what has happened.

aold · 29/09/2025 12:18

Watson and co have given all of 2 minutes consideration to a vitally important issue and repeated a meaningless be kind mantra , like five year olds. It’s now coming back to haunt them, isn’t it?

ThatCyanCat · 29/09/2025 12:16

DialSquare · 29/09/2025 11:09

JKR’s response below (copied from Nitter)

J.K. Rowling@jk_rowling11m
I'm seeing quite a bit of comment about this, so I want to make a couple of points.

I'm not owed eternal agreement from any actor who once played a character I created. The idea is as ludicrous as me checking with the boss I had when I was twenty-one for what opinions I should hold these days.

Emma Watson and her co-stars have every right to embrace gender identity ideology. Such beliefs are legally protected, and I wouldn't want to see any of them threatened with loss of work, or violence, or death, because of them.

However, Emma and Dan in particular have both made it clear over the last few years that they think our former professional association gives them a particular right - nay, obligation - to critique me and my views in public. Years after they finished acting in Potter, they continue to assume the role of de facto spokespeople for the world I created.

When you've known people since they were ten years old it's hard to shake a certain protectiveness. Until quite recently, I hadn't managed to throw off the memory of children who needed to be gently coaxed through their dialogue in a big scary film studio. For the past few years, I've repeatedly declined invitations from journalists to comment on Emma specifically, most notably on the Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Ironically, I told the producers that I didn't want her to be hounded as the result of anything I said.

The television presenter in the attached clip highlights Emma's 'all witches' speech, and in truth, that was a turning point for me, but it had a postscript that hurt far more than the speech itself. Emma asked someone to pass on a handwritten note from her to me, which contained the single sentence 'I'm so sorry for what you're going through' (she has my phone number). This was back when the death, rape and torture threats against me were at their peak, at a time when my personal security measures had had to be tightened considerably and I was constantly worried for my family's safety. Emma had just publicly poured more petrol on the flames, yet thought a one line expression of concern from her would reassure me of her fundamental sympathy and kindness.

Like other people who've never experienced adult life uncushioned by wealth and fame, Emma has so little experience of real life she's ignorant of how ignorant she is. She'll never need a homeless shelter. She's never going to be placed on a mixed sex public hospital ward. I'd be astounded if she's been in a high street changing room since childhood. Her 'public bathroom' is single occupancy and comes with a security man standing guard outside the door. Has she had to strip off in a newly mixed-sex changing room at a council-run swimming pool? Is she ever likely to need a state-run rape crisis centre that refuses to guarantee an all-female service? To find herself sharing a prison cell with a male rapist who's identified into the women's prison?

I wasn't a multimillionaire at fourteen. I lived in poverty while writing the book that made Emma famous. I therefore understand from my own life experience what the trashing of women's rights in which Emma has so enthusiastically participated means to women and girls without her privileges.

The greatest irony here is that, had Emma not decided in her most recent interview to declare that she loves and treasures me - a change of tack I suspect she's adopted because she's noticed full-throated condemnation of me is no longer quite as fashionable as it was - I might never have been this honest.

Adults can't expect to cosy up to an activist movement that regularly calls for a friend's assassination, then assert their right to the former friend's love, as though the friend was in fact their mother. Emma is rightly free to disagree with me and indeed to discuss her feelings about me in public - but I have the same right, and I've finally decided to exercise it.

Aren't you glad she's on our side?

Mmmnotsure · 29/09/2025 12:13

People I would not want to be at this moment

  1. Emma Watson

(disclaimer, assuming she has an iota of self awareness)