student university toilets

So glad i'm not at uni anymore. It was bad enough when my uni experimented with "gender neutral loos" Cubicals wern't floor to cieling - andf blokes could just wander in and out as they pleased - please note that this was formerly the ladies loos for this particular lecture theater - then they made it gender neutral. luckily no urinals but it was bad enough.

Luckily back then we actyually were able to complain without being called transphobic or whatever the heck the TRA's use now.

It got repealed after the vast majority of the female students complained.

"People here say men should be better at accepting all men so maybe some reflection is in order?"

Men should be better at accepting all men. You are really now discussing 'passing' and you are also trying to make an assymetrical situation symmetrical. It is true that if the exception under the EA was not there, then all female people would be expected to use female single sex spaces. However, the exception IS there, it was even read out in the Supreme Court judgment for the FWS case.

Just playing 'whatabout' like you are is just fuckwittery.

Do you include disabled/accessible in gender neutral provision?

When are gender neutral facilities not available at all?

On the day when they release a report showing how widespread sexual assault is at universities yet fail to link it to this lack of basic respect for women might play into this

If trans men are legally female under the EA, why should they be excluded from female spaces? I understand you’ll say because testosterone has masculinised them to the point women will be alarmed, but why should someone who is female not be allowed to use spaces for their sex? People here say men should be better at accepting all men so maybe some reflection is in order?

Do you think a trans man who has masculinised to the point women can’t tell should be using male spaces? If they should use gender neutral facilities, what should they do if one isn’t available?

Here is another male person using some classic men's rights activist type discussion points. This is not a surprise.

Women you demanded this, but you don't want to accept the consequences.

Meanwhile, you have mischaracterised just what feminists have been campaigning for in your oversimplificated point. Luckily, the Supreme Court judges understood the issues better than you seem to.

I’m not doxxing my company, but yes, only gender neutral toilets. If people don’t want to use the mixed toilets, individual cubicles with a sink are available

It obviously is as issue of convenience. You’re pushed for sex to be based on birth in the equality act but aren’t willing to fully accept the reality of that interpretation

"Everyone here always talks about how biological sex is everything"

This is a mischaracterisation of what many people believe. And what is reflected in the SC ruling.

Yes, biological sex matters for certain aspects of life. One of those aspects is for access to female single sex provisions. Your oversimplification misrepresents the success of testosterone treatment on some female people in developing superficial male body cues. There may be female people with these superficial male body cues that might cause some female people distress if those female people don't realise the person is female. And no, some female people will not be able to tell. We see those posts from female people who cannot correctly identify the sex of a person beyond superficial body cues on MN all the time. They are the ones who say they cannot tell, so why do we think we can.

Either way, what is interesting is that quite a few female people who take testosterone understand that some other female people will mistake them as being male or will simply become distressed at seeing particular male body cues. They tell us that they will go out of their way to find alternative solutions. They communicate with each other and they plan for their needs.

You have mischaracterised what many people believe with that statement by removing context and over simplifying what many people believe / understand.

Well tbf, of course you think that. It would be very odd if you thought otherwise.

But trust me…. It’s more than a question of inconvenient.

And indeed the very fact you even think that it’s an issue of convenience really does demonstrate that, well…..

And ONLY gender neutral toilets available?

industry?

That’s my take on that specific part of the ruling. I don’t think we should be picking and choosing which trans people to exclude from spaces for their birth sex based on appearance. Everyone here always talks about how biological sex is everything so do you think trans people should have access to all spaces for their birth sex?

UK company, 2500+ employees

I have no idea if the OP’s description is entirely accurate but your suggestion that women should have to go to a station loo or sneak into a coffee shop if they don’t feel comfortable in shared facilities doesn’t sound very inclusive.

They do

I'd be really surprised if they don't have any female loos. Our local uni has a mixture of unisex and single. I would encourage her to speak to the information point at the uni and ask where the closest ladies toilets are. They will have some.

The different structure of secondary education in Scotland means that it used to be quite normal for 17 year-olds to start at Scottish universities on a 4 year degree course and not unknown for some 16 year-olds. Certainly when my sister went from Lancashire to Edinburgh University in the mid-60s there were plenty of her fellow first years at least a year younger than she was and it was a 4 year course.

I really dislike gender-neutral toilets. When I was 22, I was pushed into a toilet cubicle by a man while I was in a pub. He managed to force the door shut and lock it. More recently, I visited a restaurant where the toilets were gender-neutral and very dimly lit. It made me feel extremely unsafe, and I had to leave.

@cigarsmokingwoman I am an academic but at an English university. If you want to PM me I'll try and find a friendly and helpful academic at Stirling. They will either be able to find her a loo or raise this with management or both.

Uk company? Size?

inconvenient

That is your take on the debate?

To be fair, it has been proved that there are no urinals in gender neutral toilets at sterling university