The removal of ladies toilets

I haven't been burgled but I still lock the doors.

We can't operate on the idea that because we have no personal experience of something it doesn't exist.

It doesn't really matter what the motive was, they don't work. Unisex facilities are disastrous for the safety of women and girls.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Well it hasn’t worked. The traditional set up was men’s, women’s and families, which worked fine. Now ours has gone all open-plan, mixed-sex and I can’t take my eyes off my kids for a second. It’s exhausting. And the rising trend of people shoving their phones under cubicles to film only makes it more so.

30% by the statistic don’t have an issue and many of the 70% won’t actually care that much it’s just a poll was presented to them and they chose single sex because that was the norm
I am interested in knowing why you think you can mindread what women think when they respond to a poll. How do you know they didn’t choose single sex because they want single sex?

Nobody wants this. The vast majority of women don't want it, and neither do most men, although they may perceive that it affects them a lot less. So why? The ancient question is always worth asking: cui bono?

If the toilets are being refurbished to mixed sex then they should go with the universal toilet design as listed in document T.

Think about medically vulnerable people who are more likely to need assistance asap (heart attack, stroke, seizure, hypo, mental health crisis, spiked drink) and also women and children who are more likely to be sexually assaulted in toilets.

Now see the conflicts with the universal design:

· Universal toilet facilities provided in a fully enclosed room which contains a water-closet and washbasin and hand-drying facilities, and is intended for individual use by persons of either sex.
· Self-closer on door, if a fire door.
· A full-height door and full-height floor-to-ceiling partitions.
· Be capable of being opened from the outside if a person has collapsed against it while inside the toilet room or cubicle.
· If the door is inward opening, have an emergency release mechanism so that the door is capable of being opened outward, from the outside, in case of emergency, such as when a person has collapsed while inside the toilet room or cubicle.
· Adequately resist the passage of sound in toilet rooms.

Will the capability of being opened from the outside be abused? Yes. In nightclubs men have let themselves in to a private, sound resistant room.

Will the capability of being opened from the outside be too late? Yes. In schools, restaurants, council offices etc etc in this country in the last few years. If the toilet door is resting in the closed position and no one is aware because of the privacy, people have been left for days in toilets.

Are manufacturers pushing unisex toilets? Yes. It’s good business- all those extra fixtures and fittings.

Has anyone done a proper risk assessment on these designs compared to a single sex design with door gaps? No

What about schools? No

edit to say: the instances above are just a few of the examples I have collated.

I’m not so sure about that.

Have you seen the list of men who pushed hard for mixed sex facilities in local councils and beyond and their list of convictions for sexual crimes?

It’s happened far too often to be a mere coincidence.

but it’s not excluding women from public spaces, 30% by the statistic don’t have an issue and many of the 70% won’t actually care that much it’s just a poll was presented to them and they chose single sex because that was the norm. Good quality shared facilities (with basin in cubicle) are absolutely fine to use, and I’ve never had issues with them being any worse condition wise that single sex ladies toilets. I think in larger buildings and public spaces there is a case to have both segregated and mixed facilities, the latter are so much easier for families with children of both sexes, saves the how old to go in alone question. In smaller spaces mixed is fine as long as good quality

Of course women are being heard. They're heard and blithely ignored.

Male urine does smell different to female urine. One poster on another thread linked an article that showed the smell was how her guide dog got her to the right toilets.

Both men and women can tell the difference in studies. Men also have a worse sense of smell than women which is a small mercy for their smellier toilets 😬😅

Yes the local leisure centre has just converted what was a ladies loo with two cubicles and a gents (which I assume had one cubicle and urinals) into two unisex. Properly done so self contained but why? Fortunately I live nearby so hardly ever need to use them.

Most men would prefer single sex with urinals too.
And all because a few men who pretend they are laydees have a tantrum.

The only thing that might force a change back is when men have to start queueing for the Ladies as we do.

I'd rather have toilet's in the first place....all our public toilets are closed

It’s absolutely horrendous for many reasons. My local band pub has now changed its loo’s to unisex. It can get a bit rough depending on the band. It’s tedious queuing with pissed blokes, could be dangerous given the nature of enclosed spaces and the toilets were disgusting.
At work we had to share a loo whilst the Gents was being repaired. Even that one day was enough for the floor and seat to be covered in piss.

It's spitefulness.

I had to use mixed sex toilets yesterday in a Cafe Nero. There were 3 fully enclosed toilets with sinks and I had to queue in a very small narrow corridor for them with two men - it felt very uncomfortable and I left at one point as I didn't feel happy being in such close proximity to them. When I finally got to use the cubicle the loo seat had been left up and there was wee on it - had to grab a wodge of loo roll (fortunately there was loo roll) to prise it apart from the lid and put it back down. Having to wee with men standing outside in such a narrow space, albeit behind a locked door, felt very uncomfortable. This was in a large city centre place, not a small cafe. I absolutely hate them.

I was in one very recently, I can’t remember where now but maybe a theatre or a museum. There was no obvious option of single sex and there were middle aged blokes hovering before going in and looking uncomfortable at the wash basins so it isn’t just us women who don’t like them although our reasons for disliking them are weightier. It’s only since they became a thing that I realised that male piss actually smells different and more pungent. It shouldn’t be a surprise as it’s true of done other species too. It’s really unpleasant.

There is also the attitude often found in men's comments on newspaper columns which quite enjoys the whole 'well you moaned so now you get nothing, see what happens to you when you get out of your box ladies?'

This entire shitshow has demonstrated, loudly, that women's 'rights' were never anything more than a very shallow veneer. Unisex is because men do not want women to have single sex facilities or boundaries, do not want to hear the word 'no' from women they want to use, do not care if women are excluded or harmed because who cares about women, and because organisations understandably do not want to have to deal with a huge guy in a skirt who has a difficult relationship with reality and is shrieking in their face about how very dare they.

Separate facilities for women were hard-won, to give women privacy, dignity and safety. What has changed? Why are those things no longer seen as important?

Because some men wanted in of the basis of nothing more than they said so, and rather than abiding by the law and saying no to these men, it's been decided if they can't have the womens facilities then no one can. Turn the whole thing unisex so that these men don't have a massive tantrum and kick off. This way they still get to subject women to their presence. Must placate them somehow.

The building legislation for education premises can be different. The college (if it’s in England) maybe following these guidelines and sometimes there is confusion over whether a single use room contains a sink. I think it should.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employers-requirements-for-college-projects-part-a-and-part-b
Also look at 2A

By the way, the above are GUIDELINES the DfE have told me after they also told me they didn’t hold any risk assessment or equality impact assessment on their designs!

The DfE mentioned that every employer has to abide by Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (that is the foundation for 1992 legislation).

Theres also this which covers children up to 25:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/6/part/3

There’s also some good resources on the Sex Matters website.

Agreed. The men I know hate unisex loos and dh refuses to use them.

That might be fine from a safety point of view but they are almost always dirtier ime. Men stand up to pee, women sit down. That alone suggests that single-sex is better for women. I know my DH will use (if necessary) really terrrible loos because he doesn't actually need to be as close to the toilet as I do! As always, women are disregarded.

As I said upthread, it's so depressing, nobody wants this, especially women. And yet it is being foisted on the public by the 'lanyard class'. Even if they are breaking the law of the land, they don't seem to care. But rather prefer to patronise and insult women who object.

If I was running a 'populist Left' party, along the lines of 'the many, not the few', this is exactly one of the issues I'd be hammering home: here is a classic case of ordinary people being denied their rights under the law by an elite grouping who wish to force their ideology onto the public. Harry Perkins would have been all over this!

If private enclosed rooms with wash basin that’s fine tho of course that would mean far fewer toilets available as you can fit so many more cubicles in one bathroom space.
Cubicles for mixed use are not acceptable at all.

I'm sorry if it derails your thread, but does the building legislation referred to also cover students at FE college?

My son (XY) has gone back to college and is very upset that there are now a row of individual cubicles each opening on to the corridor and then communal handwashing facilities for male and female together.

He has a medical condition and would not like to advertise it by having to use disabled loos. Last term, there was separate boys and girls toilets and he was coping.

I am going to contact college anyway, so any advice will be put to good use and hopefully also helpful for girls. Thank you.

I live in a bankrupt council area (financially, not morally) and we don't have public toilets anymore, which I suppose is one way to deal with the issue.

I have a hierarchy preference of crap mixed sex toilets

• ones which were separate sex but have had the labels taken off the door so the "gender neutral" cubicles are in a room with urinals - 1/10 will not use
• narrow/long/dark corridor leading to bank of mixed sex toilets 1/10 would never go back
• mixed sex single cubicle toilets opening to the outside of a building or inside a cafe where the door is visible - 3/10 would use as safer than other options but still dirty