The removal of ladies toilets

Sparks654 · 2025-09-20T22:14:23+00:00

I like many women, have been really dismayed at the removal of separate sex public toilets - and also the lack of discussion and women's voices being raised and heard on this topic. I live in Somerset, and where I live the town hall, and all public toilets are mixed sex. Private businesses also seem to be either refurbishing their facilities to remove ladies and gents toilets, or new businesses directly are making all toilets mixed sex. This is actually silently excluding women from public spaces, although I know anecdotally of men who've told me they feel uncomfortable with the mixed sex bathroom arrangement and that they are intruding on women's space. In fact recently I was visiting an art gallery and had no option but to use the facilities - which I discovered are now unisex. A man entered and saw a row of women and asked - "this is unisex isn't it?" He hovered awkwardly at the door. I wonder if other regions are noticing the same thing? Polls seems to suggest that over 70 percent of the population want single sex toilets and yet with public money they are being removed? I feel this is actually silently excluding women and girls from public spaces we might have been able to access. Now I feel obliged to check in advance where I am going to know if there are ladies toilets available, and I am finding something that used to be a given, and a women's health service, is disappearing. Wonder what is happening elsewhere and if there is a free discussion taking place, or - if in my experience - a dose of cancel culture is stopping the question of women's rights being raised?

SharonEllis · 24/09/2025 08:57

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 21/09/2025 07:46

The floor to ceiling doors are dangerous for two reasons:

if you collapse, no one knows. This is why we have always had the design we’ve had
it is perfect for sexual predators who can easy push a girl or woman inside a confined space and rape or sexually assault her

This changeover to a situation virtually no one wants has to stop, for reasons of safety.

This. I feel really strongly that old style cubicles, open top & bottom, in a single sex space are by far the safest.

They are also much better for parents with children including teenagers. You may want yo have a discreet conversation with your child while maintaining their privacy. Its impossible with the fully sealed cubicles with heavy doors that are often off a public corridor.

Original poster

Sparks654 · 24/09/2025 08:54

Just another note for anyone out there following this lamentable situation - I support Sex Matters - if you don't already consider signing up to their newsletter and if you can support them. It boggles my mind that women are having to redirect energy away from other women's rights issues that need attending to, to just try and reclaim a basic right and space, but that's where we are , and I am very grateful to Maya Forester and co for their bravery and tireless campaigning. They are our present day suffragettes.

Otherwise as I say I am making it a point to ask venues if they offer ladies toilets, or not. If I get the unisex reply (unless a small biz which has only one loo), then I say unfortunately I won't be visiting. I definitely won't be back to Hauser ana Wirth in Somerset. They also now have mixed sex loos. Economics seems to be the only thing that is understood, so voting with our feet may have to be the way!

OP posts:

Original poster

Sparks654 · 24/09/2025 08:45

The13thFairy · 21/09/2025 15:56

Of course women are being heard. They're heard and blithely ignored.

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Yes but also women are being silenced, which is even worse. Less so than 10 years ago when a friend told me at her school they were firing staff that spoke out against the mixed sex new loo block (obviously research has shown this leads to girls missing school and at best dehydrating or experiencing discomfort in avoiding using the toilets), but it's still quite a delicate topic. The council replied to me quite aggressively with the usual "we are being inclusive"line (it was actually via third party emails which I had sight of - an event organiser for the thing I was supposed to attend). There was even some discussion from the event people about labelling temporarily the toilets as women only for the event, but I said that it would need to be a few loos, not just one. In the building all of the 11 toilets are mixed sex, they are in a room, rather than opening onto a corridor, and there is one disabled loo - which is what the council invited women to use. So one mixed sex disabled loo for 50% of the population, who spend a third more time in the bathroom than men....crazy stuff.

Anyway, I did make the Somerset council leader aware, - in typical politician/public servant fashion he just replied two lines saying it was within each towns remit to decide blah blah. So all a bit pointless. The only other thing is to write to compliance, and ask them to review if this is legal.

I just feel so frustrated and sorry that now before I go anywhere, in the back of my mind is a worry about accessing ladies' toilets. One thing I have started doing - which maybe others could too - is post a question on the Google site for the company - in the "post a question" bit. That way others can see the answer, and it does something to expose the concern that we have.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sparks654 · 24/09/2025 08:34

Kuretake · 21/09/2025 01:12

At my work we have mixed sex loos and the rationale is that it allows us to have fewer overall. The set up is a door off the main office space into a little corridor with 12 individual rooms.

I'm a little undecided on them - in some ways it's more privacy overall as each little cubicle has it's own sink and dryer. It'such easier to sort a mooncup for example. I do hate how you can bump into a bloke in the little narrow corridor. My ideal would be the individual rooms with sinks but a set of each for men and women.

Yes exactly these sorts of things are being overlooked. Also I have found women changing, doing their make up, or making other adjustments that maybe they wouldn't feel so comfortable doing with a man there.

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Shortshriftandlethal · 24/09/2025 07:22

GallantKumquat · 23/09/2025 22:08

Moore recently made an oblique reference to this: that in some key YourParty meetings, constituents are segregated by sex - presumably out of pious modesty. How likely is it that transwomen would be welcomed with open arms into those segregated spaces? Not very, she would suggest.

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Yes, it is just not going to happen. The trans agenda is the site of its own crucifixtion. Nonsense meets reality.

GallantKumquat · 23/09/2025 22:08

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/09/2025 10:24

People tend to use Islam as an example so that they can highlight the incompatibility of the Leftist's 'progressivie' alliance with the agenda of radical Islamists ( in the name of Pro Gaza) and with muslims as victims.

Edited

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Moore recently made an oblique reference to this: that in some key YourParty meetings, constituents are segregated by sex - presumably out of pious modesty. How likely is it that transwomen would be welcomed with open arms into those segregated spaces? Not very, she would suggest.

DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 16:24

Kuretake · 21/09/2025 01:12

At my work we have mixed sex loos and the rationale is that it allows us to have fewer overall. The set up is a door off the main office space into a little corridor with 12 individual rooms.

I'm a little undecided on them - in some ways it's more privacy overall as each little cubicle has it's own sink and dryer. It'such easier to sort a mooncup for example. I do hate how you can bump into a bloke in the little narrow corridor. My ideal would be the individual rooms with sinks but a set of each for men and women.

The main concern here ( apart from wee on the floor as men stand )
is the rising problem with men installing secret cameras

Does your office do regular checks
( at least daily ) they can be hidden almost anywhere these days. Even masquerading as a screw

So it’s a no from me

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 23/09/2025 16:10

Exactly. Being a resource for the use of men should absolutely not be a condition of access to public facilities for women.

Women happy to provide their body and bodily functions for the emotional, existential and sexual needs of men have the gender neutral spaces where they can do so all they want. No one's stopping them.

But this should not be something any woman has to worry about when she goes to the loo.

SmudgeHughes · 23/09/2025 15:04

LeftieRightsHoarder · 22/09/2025 19:38

Absolutely true. I go out of my way to avoid mixed-sex toilets and I object to my options being restricted.

Having been pushed into a confined space and sexually assaulted as a child, I feel claustrophobic in any such space, and hypervigilant if there’s a man between me and the escape route.

Ironically, I fled from the man who attacked me when I was a child into the safety of a women’s public lavatory staffed by an attendant. Little chance of that refuge now.

And there’s the unwelcome knowledge, in mixed-sex facilities, that many men get off on listening to women peeing. A woman or girl alone with a sexually aroused man is in obvious danger.

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Even if one’s not at danger of assault, the thought of being an unwitting participant in someone’s fetish is horrible as well as frightening.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/09/2025 10:24

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 13:17

I agree with you, I certainly want single sex spaces - I wasn't the one who said we should do it for the muslims though.

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People tend to use Islam as an example so that they can highlight the incompatibility of the Leftist's 'progressivie' alliance with the agenda of radical Islamists ( in the name of Pro Gaza) and with muslims as victims.

MarieDeGournay · 23/09/2025 10:18

'So...what part of (1) (a) (i) in Part T of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations 2010, 2024 revision, don't you understand? '

(1) Toilet accommodation in buildings other than dwellings— (a) must consist of— (i) reasonable provision for male and female single-sex toilets
Toilet accommodation: Approved Document T

Keeptoiletssafe · 22/09/2025 20:04

MarieDeGournay · 22/09/2025 19:38

Those cases sound pretty dodgy all right, QuornPlaster, communal handwashing isn't right.

Keeptoiletssafe is an absolute star for making herself an expert, and championing the safety aspects of toilet provision.

It would be great to have a Hit Squad who made themselves similarly expert on the planning, workplace, health and safety and building regs who we could send around the country to say a definitive Yay or Nay on cases like these.
I can hear the Batman theme tune and see them swooping down to condemn dodgy toilet arrangements as non-compliant

Seriously though - at the same time as the tide turns against the excesses of genderwoo, and gradually things like the SC ruling restore a bit of balance, there seems to be a wave of probably illegal [I mean non-regs-compliant] alterations being made to existing buildings, and very probably non-regs-compliant toilet configurations being built into new buildings which are subject to the 2024 Building Regs which clearly state that single sex toilets MUST be provided unless there is insufficient space; unsex toilets are an optional extra, not an alternative.

So as intangibles like legal rulings are going the way of restoring women's rights, denial of those rights is being permanently built in to the built environment.

It feels like a scorched earth rear-guard campaign by TRAs and their allies.

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Ahh thanks, you are quite the expert yourself with Document T!

Yes it’s all a bit of a nightmare with lots of people not following building regs.

I am concerned there’s a lot going on in government that will overide regs that were underpinned by health and safety.

PollyNomial · 22/09/2025 19:53

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 12:43

I'm not commenting on that, I'm saying we shouldn't be making concessions for muslims, we live in a Judeo-Christian country and they need to respect that.

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Fewer than half think of themselves as Christian these days. Fewer than 1 in 10 belong to a church. We may have been such but we're not any more. Anyway, Islam is just a third Middle Eastern Abrahamic religion...

Coatsoff42 · 22/09/2025 19:42

On holiday in Europe this summer and at a museum they had clearly removed the signs and urinals from two sets of toilets, side by side in the entrance hall.
There was a wash of unsure people of all ages outside them, peering in trying to see which looked like men’s or ladies.
It was a pretty international museum so it looked like all nationalities were expecting sex segregated toilets and having a bit of a moan about how ridiculous it was.

I went into the toilets that had the most women, but when I came out of the cubicle to wash my hands it was all men. I really did not like it AT ALL. I think you are supposed to listen to your instincts, and all of mine were alarming to get out.

Not a fan of gender neutral toilets.

LeftieRightsHoarder · 22/09/2025 19:38

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 21/09/2025 07:46

The floor to ceiling doors are dangerous for two reasons:

if you collapse, no one knows. This is why we have always had the design we’ve had
it is perfect for sexual predators who can easy push a girl or woman inside a confined space and rape or sexually assault her

This changeover to a situation virtually no one wants has to stop, for reasons of safety.

Absolutely true. I go out of my way to avoid mixed-sex toilets and I object to my options being restricted.

Having been pushed into a confined space and sexually assaulted as a child, I feel claustrophobic in any such space, and hypervigilant if there’s a man between me and the escape route.

Ironically, I fled from the man who attacked me when I was a child into the safety of a women’s public lavatory staffed by an attendant. Little chance of that refuge now.

And there’s the unwelcome knowledge, in mixed-sex facilities, that many men get off on listening to women peeing. A woman or girl alone with a sexually aroused man is in obvious danger.

MarieDeGournay · 22/09/2025 19:38

QuornPlaster · 22/09/2025 18:32

A couple of arts places near to me have got what I think are non-compliant toilets.

Hauser & Wirth art gallery in Bruton. Single sex cubicles with a communal sink. 1 disabled loo. & no separate staff toilets. These have been in place since the gallery was built - c2014. *some of the existing farm buildings were converted - but not all sections.

The Newt - there’s a mix around the site. Single sex by the main entrance. But single sex, with communal hand wash by the Four Seasons Garden. I’d have to check the others - it’s a big site. & to my knowledge, no separate staff toilets - unless they have them in the main house/spa complex.
Also, they’ve opened a cafe at Castle Cary train station. Again, single cubicles, with communal hand washing.

Would be interesting to know why these architects aren’t checking building regs/statutory guidance.

It’s not a lack of cash - esp re The Newt. The owners are currently buying up half of Castle Cary by the looks of things.

Those cases sound pretty dodgy all right, QuornPlaster, communal handwashing isn't right.

Keeptoiletssafe is an absolute star for making herself an expert, and championing the safety aspects of toilet provision.

It would be great to have a Hit Squad who made themselves similarly expert on the planning, workplace, health and safety and building regs who we could send around the country to say a definitive Yay or Nay on cases like these.
I can hear the Batman theme tune and see them swooping down to condemn dodgy toilet arrangements as non-compliant

Seriously though - at the same time as the tide turns against the excesses of genderwoo, and gradually things like the SC ruling restore a bit of balance, there seems to be a wave of probably illegal [I mean non-regs-compliant] alterations being made to existing buildings, and very probably non-regs-compliant toilet configurations being built into new buildings which are subject to the 2024 Building Regs which clearly state that single sex toilets MUST be provided unless there is insufficient space; unsex toilets are an optional extra, not an alternative.

So as intangibles like legal rulings are going the way of restoring women's rights, denial of those rights is being permanently built in to the built environment.

It feels like a scorched earth rear-guard campaign by TRAs and their allies.

QuornPlaster · 22/09/2025 18:32

A couple of arts places near to me have got what I think are non-compliant toilets.

Hauser & Wirth art gallery in Bruton. Single sex cubicles with a communal sink. 1 disabled loo. & no separate staff toilets. These have been in place since the gallery was built - c2014. *some of the existing farm buildings were converted - but not all sections.

The Newt - there’s a mix around the site. Single sex by the main entrance. But single sex, with communal hand wash by the Four Seasons Garden. I’d have to check the others - it’s a big site. & to my knowledge, no separate staff toilets - unless they have them in the main house/spa complex.
Also, they’ve opened a cafe at Castle Cary train station. Again, single cubicles, with communal hand washing.

Would be interesting to know why these architects aren’t checking building regs/statutory guidance.

It’s not a lack of cash - esp re The Newt. The owners are currently buying up half of Castle Cary by the looks of things.

Grammarnut · 22/09/2025 15:49

Anonymouse27 · 21/09/2025 12:47

I'm sorry if it derails your thread, but does the building legislation referred to also cover students at FE college?

My son (XY) has gone back to college and is very upset that there are now a row of individual cubicles each opening on to the corridor and then communal handwashing facilities for male and female together.

He has a medical condition and would not like to advertise it by having to use disabled loos. Last term, there was separate boys and girls toilets and he was coping.

I am going to contact college anyway, so any advice will be put to good use and hopefully also helpful for girls. Thank you.

If the toilets are unisex the washing facilities must be in the lockable cubicle with the wc. Sinks in the middle for mixed sex use are illegal, I think.

MarieDeGournay · 22/09/2025 13:21

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 12:43

I'm not commenting on that, I'm saying we shouldn't be making concessions for muslims, we live in a Judeo-Christian country and they need to respect that.

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Judeo-Christian? Really?
You should make yourself more familiar with traditional Judaic and Christian views on segregation of the sexes!

Skyellaskerry · 22/09/2025 13:17

@WhamFantastic I particularly hate this too: “I hate going into one after a random man.”

Even when they are self contained with hand washing facilities I get the hell out as quickly as possible from most public mixed sex toilets I’ve used lately. I’m afraid to admit I use my hand sanitizer once I’ve escaped as I just can’t stand being in them longer than essential.

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 13:17

converseandjeans · 22/09/2025 13:08

@Knightyknight I think most women want female only toilets (and most men too). It’s not really a Muslim issue.

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I agree with you, I certainly want single sex spaces - I wasn't the one who said we should do it for the muslims though.

converseandjeans · 22/09/2025 13:08

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 12:43

I'm not commenting on that, I'm saying we shouldn't be making concessions for muslims, we live in a Judeo-Christian country and they need to respect that.

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@Knightyknight I think most women want female only toilets (and most men too). It’s not really a Muslim issue.

converseandjeans · 22/09/2025 13:06

SmudgeHughes · 22/09/2025 10:26

There’s another aspect to this ‘what is wrong with men’ question; what is porn doing to us, and to men? Widespread access to porn is a relatively new thing, and research increasingly shows that it’s changing not only the way it is viewed (increased de-sensitivity) and the way men/boys see women. Etc. It’s a massive subject, and often minimised.

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@SmudgeHughes I grew up in the 80s & 90s and felt that women were making progress in terms of breaking into careers which were previously male dominated. Girls were under less pressure to wear revealing clothes. Now we seem to have gone backwards in terms of women’s rights. Strangulation during sex has become mainstream & girls are expected to maintain a certain appearance. If we try to argue for women only spaces (based on the behaviour of some men meaning we don’t feel safe) then we are told to accept it & threatened if we continue to argue back. That said I know some lovely men - but how do we know what they’re really thinking?

Peregrina · 22/09/2025 13:04

I think a lot of orthodox Jewish women won't want to use mixed sex toilets. What do you think they should do Knightyknight?

Knightyknight · 22/09/2025 12:43

Arran2024 · 22/09/2025 12:38

Oh right, since when did "Britishness" involve mixed sex toilets? Isn't that a "continental" idea?!

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I'm not commenting on that, I'm saying we shouldn't be making concessions for muslims, we live in a Judeo-Christian country and they need to respect that.