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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it safety or separation?

660 replies

OneFlakyMaker · 20/09/2025 05:54

When opposing transgender people in women's spaces, are you looking for safe spaces or separate spaces?

They may overlap but are not the same thing, and while a lot of the discussion is focused on safety, the tone and some arguments hint that addressing safety won't be enough for many people to feel comfortable. Instead, a place without males is sought.

I read one woman described it "At the club we used the women's bathroom to get a break from interacting with men".

OP posts:
Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:55

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:53

And for all other purposes.

Yes.

In terms of access to SSS the EA is the relevant legislation, however.

apologies I’m editing a piece of writing at the same time as doing this as I’m waiting for the steam powered laptop to compile.

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:53

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:53

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:52

They’re still the sex they were born. For the purposes of the EA 2010.

And for all other purposes.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:52

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:48

De transitioners aren't changing 'back' in personality rather in how far they want to embrace/express certain aspects of it.

They’re still the sex they were born. For the purposes of the EA 2010.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:50

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:48

De transitioners aren't changing 'back' in personality rather in how far they want to embrace/express certain aspects of it.

Detransitioners are people who have realised that they were sold an absolute crock of shit, that male people can't become women and vice versa, and have made the sensible decision to try to accept themselves for who and what they really are.

This is why they are vilified by their former rainbow family. Because they are helping to expose the fact that trans people are all living a lie.

Namelessnelly · 23/09/2025 07:50

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:48

De transitioners aren't changing 'back' in personality rather in how far they want to embrace/express certain aspects of it.

Also, remember to drink some water. Gotta replace those fluids.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:49

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:46

There's no movement at all from man to trans woman. A trans woman is just a man.

Within the context that a transwoman is a subset of men and a transman a subset of women.

No one ever actually changes sex.

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:48

Helleofabore · 22/09/2025 13:52

Here is the other issue about using "psychological, behavioural & cultural commonalities" as being in any way 'meaningful' to categorise a person's sex class.

What happens when a person with a transgender identity detransitions? Which "psychological, behavioural & cultural" aspects are then changed with this detransition? Belief in their identity changes. What else?

So why the fuck are we being told that "psychological, behavioural & cultural commonalities" is in any way a meaningful method for categorising a person's sex class? Someone's transgender identity can change. Someone's "psychological & behavioural" profile changes over time too. Sometimes it changes due to illness.

And yet, we are seeing it wheeled out as some kind of 'fact' to categorise people for single sex provisions, even groups? Really? Is that really what this whole discussion has been about?

Because I couldn't give a fuck if a male person, who has someone else's criteria of stereotypical 'female' interests, attitudes and behaviour, wants to join a group that is for female people only. That male person should go find a mixed sex group and be who he wants to be there. That male person's interests, attitudes and behaviour are irrelevant when the group is for female people only.

Because I can assure people that "psychological & behavioural" profile of my parent with dementia changed considerably ... yet... they did not change sex and they would not have been excluded from any single sex space or group for their sex. Changeable factors are not abiding 'facts'.

There is no way to philosophise this categorisation method into being a 'fact'.

Edited

De transitioners aren't changing 'back' in personality rather in how far they want to embrace/express certain aspects of it.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:48

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:27

Um, that may have something to do with the company you keep. The women of today aren't shy to tell you what they think. 'Karen' didn't come out of no where…

What’s the male equivalent of a Karen? Do tell. Thanks.

Namelessnelly · 23/09/2025 07:48

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Namelessnelly · 23/09/2025 07:47

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:44

False equivalence.

“I hate to even say this because it makes him sound normal, but I do think he loved us,” Elizabeth Kendall said.

Ted Bundy was a loving partner & a murderous psychopath so attempting to use the exceptionally unhinged as some sort of comparative gotcha is ludicrous.

Funny how you reference a man when someone gives you a list of males with a trans identity. Almost like you believe TWAM. Also Non

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:46

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:41

But that movement is from man to trans woman. Or woman to trans man.

No one actually changes sex.

And the Supreme Court clarified that where the word sex is used in the EA it means sex. Not gender. Not state. Not making artificial changes to one’s body or changing socially.

I’m sorry for the trans people who find this difficult. But the answer is not for them to seek to reduce the protections available to another class of person (sex based) in the EA.

They need to campaign for some sort of fourth space (the existing third space is for disabled people and they can’t have that either as that means reducing the protections to another protected class of people in the EA - the disabled)

There's no movement at all from man to trans woman. A trans woman is just a man.

DeanElderberry · 23/09/2025 07:46

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 07:42

Karen. Whoring. It just keeps coming. But apparently, no hostility towards women by this poster.

Let it speak

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:46

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:44

False equivalence.

“I hate to even say this because it makes him sound normal, but I do think he loved us,” Elizabeth Kendall said.

Ted Bundy was a loving partner & a murderous psychopath so attempting to use the exceptionally unhinged as some sort of comparative gotcha is ludicrous.

And if Ted Bundy had decided to identify as female he would still have been a bloke and still in the male prison estate.

What part of that is hard for you? I think I can take a guess.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:45

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:44

False equivalence.

“I hate to even say this because it makes him sound normal, but I do think he loved us,” Elizabeth Kendall said.

Ted Bundy was a loving partner & a murderous psychopath so attempting to use the exceptionally unhinged as some sort of comparative gotcha is ludicrous.

I don't see any link between my question and your response.

Can you please try again? Which of those apparently feminine qualities do you think these violent male criminals have in common with women?

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:44

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:30

Depends on the individual & how far the want to embrace their femininity/masculinity & now its become more acceptable that's why some are taking further steps to live their 'authenticity'.

They can live however they like. Present how they like.

I don’t care.

But the law says they can’t enter single sex spaces of the sex other than that which they were born.

And it’s interesting to me that you don’t accept women’s no. Do you generally have a problem understanding the principle of consent? I can explain it to you if you’d like?

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:44

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 13:43

Well the qualities you ascribed to women in the other thread yesterday were "very feminine, agreeable, sensitive, empathic, nurturing, compassionate, emotionally expressive, understanding and cooperative individual".

How many of these qualities do you think Karen White, Isla Bryson and Katie Dolatowski, who are currently behind bars for rape and sexual assault, or Sarah Jane Baker, who served 30 years in prison for kidnapping, torture and attempted murder, possess?

False equivalence.

“I hate to even say this because it makes him sound normal, but I do think he loved us,” Elizabeth Kendall said.

Ted Bundy was a loving partner & a murderous psychopath so attempting to use the exceptionally unhinged as some sort of comparative gotcha is ludicrous.

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 07:42

ArabellaSaurus · 23/09/2025 07:30

<Paging clean up team, we have a Karen in aisle six, paging clean up>

Karen. Whoring. It just keeps coming. But apparently, no hostility towards women by this poster.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 07:41

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:23

if your definition of 'legitimacy' is one in which people believe exactly what you say or tell them, regardless of what the the measurable evidence and facts say to the contrary, then no, there can be no legitimacy unless there is a universal acceptance of your premise. There isn't.

No. Legitimacy requires associations. So no, one can't claim to be a homosexual without having associations to homosexual behaviour.

The movement from one state to another is socially living as the opposite gender by making changes to one's body & social status.

But that movement is from man to trans woman. Or woman to trans man.

No one actually changes sex.

And the Supreme Court clarified that where the word sex is used in the EA it means sex. Not gender. Not state. Not making artificial changes to one’s body or changing socially.

I’m sorry for the trans people who find this difficult. But the answer is not for them to seek to reduce the protections available to another class of person (sex based) in the EA.

They need to campaign for some sort of fourth space (the existing third space is for disabled people and they can’t have that either as that means reducing the protections to another protected class of people in the EA - the disabled)

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 07:38

This reply has been deleted

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I don’t believe you can parse ‘anti-trans hysteria’ in any way that doesn’t ultimately end up showing hostility towards the women and girls that are asking that sex is prioritised above gender when sex matters.

Interesting that you try though. However, if that had been all that you had posted, you might have been able to make that excuse. I don’t think anyone who has been on threads with you could doubt your hostility towards any woman who disagrees with you.

SigourneyHoward · 23/09/2025 07:38

@Howseitgoin morning bro! How are you doing on the femininity scale this fine morning?

awesome will ferrell GIF
Namelessnelly · 23/09/2025 07:38

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:30

Depends on the individual & how far the want to embrace their femininity/masculinity & now its become more acceptable that's why some are taking further steps to live their 'authenticity'.

November Oscar

DeanElderberry · 23/09/2025 07:37

'Karen' is 21st century for 'scold' afaik.

A feature of religion- or belief- driven misogynist societies that feel a need to shame women for speaking.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 07:36

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:30

Depends on the individual & how far the want to embrace their femininity/masculinity & now its become more acceptable that's why some are taking further steps to live their 'authenticity'.

Who gives a fuck? Expecting the rest of society to care about you "living your authenticity" is pure narcissism. No one cares. It's self-indulgent, navel-gazing nonsense. Contemplate your femininity whilst taking a crap in the men's toilets if you must, but stop boring everyone else with it, and stay out of women's single sex spaces.

KitWyn · 23/09/2025 07:34

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 07:23

if your definition of 'legitimacy' is one in which people believe exactly what you say or tell them, regardless of what the the measurable evidence and facts say to the contrary, then no, there can be no legitimacy unless there is a universal acceptance of your premise. There isn't.

No. Legitimacy requires associations. So no, one can't claim to be a homosexual without having associations to homosexual behaviour.

The movement from one state to another is socially living as the opposite gender by making changes to one's body & social status.

If I say I am gay/lesbian I am telling you that I am same sex attracted. I could be, and remain, celibate, for any number of reasons. Still gay/lesbian!

What are these "homosexual behaviours" you speak of? Are there also "womaning behaviours"?

Please list them, that would be very helpful to better understand your argument.