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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it safety or separation?

660 replies

OneFlakyMaker · 20/09/2025 05:54

When opposing transgender people in women's spaces, are you looking for safe spaces or separate spaces?

They may overlap but are not the same thing, and while a lot of the discussion is focused on safety, the tone and some arguments hint that addressing safety won't be enough for many people to feel comfortable. Instead, a place without males is sought.

I read one woman described it "At the club we used the women's bathroom to get a break from interacting with men".

OP posts:
Arran2024 · 23/09/2025 09:36

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:29

Sure, nobody is required to do a damn thing that might help stop someone else’s criminal activity…even before it happens. 'That's their own problem even if we have to live with consequences so be it, big daddy gov will just have to make a special safe space for us…oh wait we need everyone else to help us for that'….

There's this thing called Social Responsibility we all benefit from. This is smelling more & more like separatism…

We live in societies that do put in place rules to stop bad/criminal behaviour before it happens. The UK has perhaps more, or at least different, rules than the US. Here you can Jay walk but you can't carry a gun. We both have laws on speeding. We can certainly have laws to prevent men from harming women. Your wish to do what suits you and never mind anyone else's rights is individualism gone crazy. Of course we can try to prevent sexual offending by giving women single sex spaces. Like the people who want to drive at whatever speed they want, this infuriates you, but tough luck.

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 09:35

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:29

Sure, nobody is required to do a damn thing that might help stop someone else’s criminal activity…even before it happens. 'That's their own problem even if we have to live with consequences so be it, big daddy gov will just have to make a special safe space for us…oh wait we need everyone else to help us for that'….

There's this thing called Social Responsibility we all benefit from. This is smelling more & more like separatism…

DARVO in action.

TheKeatingFive · 23/09/2025 09:35

And duh! Individualism is why you cannot categorise sex classes based on “psychological, behavioural & cultural commonalities" for the purpose of single sex provisions (or any other purpose really)

How would this even work @Howseitgoin ?

What are these psychological, behavioural & cultural commonalities?

How do they manifest?

What objective criteria do we use to determine who displays them?

How is that determined? By who?

How frequently do they need to be displayed? What if there's a slip up?

How do you account for cultural differences (ie things that are more male coded in one culture, more female in another?)

Can the designation be changed? How?

childofthe607080s · 23/09/2025 09:34

@Taztoysome men are evil and have no respect for women and it’s always a shock - their arrogance and blind stupidity and that makes them dangerous

i suggest you write your report in a nice pink ink with a sweet curly font and don’t put anything in unless you can reference a man who said it first. All examples should be based around men please.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:34

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:29

Sure, nobody is required to do a damn thing that might help stop someone else’s criminal activity…even before it happens. 'That's their own problem even if we have to live with consequences so be it, big daddy gov will just have to make a special safe space for us…oh wait we need everyone else to help us for that'….

There's this thing called Social Responsibility we all benefit from. This is smelling more & more like separatism…

We don't have any social responsibility to put ourselves in danger so cross dressing men can feel included.

They have a social responsibility to stay the fuck out of women's spaces.

Datun · 23/09/2025 09:32

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:12

There's his thing called 'individualism'. On what basis an individual defines oneself varies from individual to individual & is subjective.

The categorical error you are making is the characteristics that distinguish females from males being limited to reproductive ones when its clearly not by your own admission of sexual violence being more prevalent in men necessitating private spaces.

Oh good Lord. It doesn't determine their sex, does it. If it did, every violent human would be male, and every non-violent human would be female.

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 09:31

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:12

There's his thing called 'individualism'. On what basis an individual defines oneself varies from individual to individual & is subjective.

The categorical error you are making is the characteristics that distinguish females from males being limited to reproductive ones when its clearly not by your own admission of sexual violence being more prevalent in men necessitating private spaces.

There is no ‘categorical error’ in using body formation to define the boundaries of the sex classes for single sex spaces.

You are the person trying to wedge in male people into the female sex category.

And duh! Individualism is why you cannot categorise sex classes based on “psychological, behavioural & cultural commonalities" for the purpose of single sex provisions (or any other purpose really) . I and others have been telling you that for days. Particularly individualism that is based on changeable aspects.

ArabellaSaurus · 23/09/2025 09:30

At a certain stage one has to assume that the attraction for some is in trying to insult and upset women, I'm afraid.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 09:29

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:20

We can report the post if you like but most of us don't report that sort of thing on here because we believe it is better for these people to show themselves for the woman hating sickos they are.

I get that. I do.

I just can’t believe that human being has so little concern for others.

But anyhoo. My article that I’m writing and editing with my lady brain needs my attention.

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:29

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 08:24

What is also pretty basic stuff is that people who have never met or seen someone who is of a different race or sexual orientation will still have respect for those people.

Your point has been to consider that women wanting single sex groups (not provisions needed for safeguarding including privacy and dignity) are or at risk of becoming a separatist movement. Your point is one that relies on absolutism and it is flawed because of that.

And additionally, your point being one based on absolutism then places the blame on female people for male people’s poor behaviour towards female people. This is not only victim blaming, it crosses over into the abuser’s code.

Ultimately, it is not the responsibility of female people to improve male people’s behaviour. And it is not the responsibility of female people to restrict their needs or their choices in the way you have tried to defend on this thread and others to make male people better people.

It is the responsibility of male people to act with respect and there are so many opportunities for male people and female people to interact everyday.

That some people are arguing on the internet that some female people having access to some single sex groups while still interacting with male people on a daily basis should not be allowed because male people wil not know how to behave respectfully is an absurd notion. So much so that it is an abusive notion.

Sure, nobody is required to do a damn thing that might help stop someone else’s criminal activity…even before it happens. 'That's their own problem even if we have to live with consequences so be it, big daddy gov will just have to make a special safe space for us…oh wait we need everyone else to help us for that'….

There's this thing called Social Responsibility we all benefit from. This is smelling more & more like separatism…

DeanElderberry · 23/09/2025 09:29

one can't claim to be a homosexual without having associations to homosexual behaviour

I can't be arsed to read all the boring, but is there a score sheet for 'associations to homosexual behaviour'?

Is it like the UK citizenship test? Would a chap have to enjoy musical theatre or big motorbikes or shunning the company of women, or would he have to actually shag another chap in public view? I once knew a ruggedly heterosexual (and unpleasantly handsy) zoologist who said in a wildlife service job interview that botany was 'for women and homosexuals' (they didn't hire him). A grindr account and proof of using it?

I feel very sorry for all the ordinary gay blokes who'd fail the exam.

What about lesbians? I have at times been given to understand that short hair, flat shoes and shunning unwanted male advances are enough for some blokes, so I'm in without having to do any of the sex stuff.

Life is so much simpler once you know that women are female, men are male, sexual orientation is not relevant except when courting or pairing off.

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 09:27

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:16

Uh huh, 'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'…said no women's group ever….

And of course according to you that separation is the reason we are raped. Got it.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:26

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:05

If you can't comprehend the irrelevancy of mapping psychopathic outliers onto the average person I can't help you.

You are literally the one who suggested that possessing such characteristics makes someone a woman.

So which of these characteristics do you think these male "women" possess?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:24

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:12

There's his thing called 'individualism'. On what basis an individual defines oneself varies from individual to individual & is subjective.

The categorical error you are making is the characteristics that distinguish females from males being limited to reproductive ones when its clearly not by your own admission of sexual violence being more prevalent in men necessitating private spaces.

We don't give a fuck about his "individualism". It is by definition something which concerns him and him alone. It has got fuck all to do with the rest of us and is not a reason for him to invade our spaces.

Arran2024 · 23/09/2025 09:23

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:12

There's his thing called 'individualism'. On what basis an individual defines oneself varies from individual to individual & is subjective.

The categorical error you are making is the characteristics that distinguish females from males being limited to reproductive ones when its clearly not by your own admission of sexual violence being more prevalent in men necessitating private spaces.

It isn't limited to reproduction. The old "genitals" argument. Every single part boff my body is part of being female. Men who want to be women know their voices are too low, their feet are too big, their pelvis is the wrong shape so their feet turn out when they walk, they have broad shoulders and an Adams apple...

The book 'Invisible Women' explains how the world operates for men - even in my gym the mirrors are too low because a man positioned them for his height and the steps are spaced for a male gait, so Women can't easily stride on them. My bus stop seat is too high for me to use without my feet coming off the floor. None of this has anything to do with reproduction. We are different in so many diffrent ways and the world makes it difficult for us in ways you simply don't understand because men don't experience it.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:22

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:16

Uh huh, 'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'…said no women's group ever….

It's not about what we want to discuss.

It's about wanting to discuss it without being talked over by some mainsplaining tosser.

childofthe607080s · 23/09/2025 09:22

It’s interesting if you look at the data around serious sexual assault including rape - including the ONS anonymous self reported data ( because most assaults are believed to go unreported )

the only conclusions I could draw was that between 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 men had committed at least one action that severely traumatised the woman involved to the extent that she felt she had been seriously sexually assaulted

the variation comes from working out individual men as the majority of convictions are men who have clearly offended multiple time - although that will directly link to probability of conviction

that’s hardly a tiny fraction of men is it? At best 1 in 10

this compared with psychopathic estimate at around 1%

so it’s not just the psychopaths we are afeared of

that is a myth. In British culture that kind of abuse is widespread , not as bad as some cultures. Again - because it’s not a psychopath behaviour it’s a male behaviour

i am so cross at the lies and myths being pedalled - the implication that it’s irrational of women whilst irrationally ignoring all the data that’s out there and publically available - using stereotypes of silly women to support their pathetically weak argument and to dismiss the harm and hurt that women face

edit to remove swearing

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 09:21

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:16

Uh huh, 'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'…said no women's group ever….

Oh my!

You really do live in stereotypes.

'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'

Sounds like the discussions that I have indeed been part of. In fact, we discussed those issues while watching ‘footy’ and commenting on the skills and play from the brilliant women players. A few of the women present would probably be called ‘super feminine’ too.

We don’t fit into your stereotypes and you keep showing the inherent misogyny of your arguments in so many different ways. Well done.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:21

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:18

"is simply feeling free to express what comes naturally."

You're almost there!

What comes naturally to trans identifying men is being male.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 09:20

Taztoy · 23/09/2025 08:49

ive just been sick.

I can’t believe it’s ok for that person to state that my violent rape and sa is my fault because of a lack of contact.

im beyond upset that the post is standing.

this person it’s a thought experiment and some sort of game to say more and more outlandish and ridiculous word salad and they don’t care about the impact on real women. Collateral damage. That’s all I am.

I struggle enough with feelings of worthlessness and self blame after my rape. What did I didn’t I should I have done. But to make it my fault because I want SSS? That’s just beyond me.

We can report the post if you like but most of us don't report that sort of thing on here because we believe it is better for these people to show themselves for the woman hating sickos they are.

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:18

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/09/2025 08:14

It is not 'authentic' for a man to pretend he's a woman or to expect others to recognise him as such, though. Being 'authentic, is simply feeling free to express what comes naturally. Personality and expression is not what defines someone as a man or a woman. The body and its biological function is what, ultimately, defines male or female.

Edited

"is simply feeling free to express what comes naturally."

You're almost there!

Columbidae · 23/09/2025 09:17

ArabellaSaurus · 23/09/2025 07:22

Actually, I think it boils down to fear. Not of us, per se, but ultimately of mortality. Probably mixed in with a thwarted longing for mother love.

I could be very wrong though, it happens.

I recall an interesting discussion on Ovarit regarding men who identified as women and the behaviour stemming from a normal childhood experience.

They felt, or seemed, psychologically damaged from having to leave female single sex spaces after a certain age as a child. They felt cast aside by their mothers in a shocking and cruel manner. They then spent their lives trying to get back into those comforting spaces to be coddled and mothered.

Helleofabore · 23/09/2025 09:16

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 08:57

Avoiding the question? Makes sense….

I don’t think I have avoided your question at all. I have explored it from several different aspects.

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:16

DustyWindowsills · 23/09/2025 08:13

Ah, another display of super femininity to liven up my breakfast ...

Sometimes we seek the company of women in order to have chats free of mansplaining and pointless willie-waving. At other times we're perfectly happy with male company. Yes, these are behavioural traits that are unevenly distributed between the sexes, to an extent that we notice it in our social lives. No, this has nothing to do with the single-sex exemptions outlined by the UK's Equality Act, which are to do with the impact of differing male/female biology on safety, fairness, dignity and privacy.

Uh huh, 'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'…said no women's group ever….

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 23/09/2025 09:15

Howseitgoin · 23/09/2025 09:02

don't dehumanise & demonise trans people = "hostility towards the women and girls" 🤪

The answer is still no you tedious man child. Just use the men's 🙄

(and your lack of empathy for Taztoy and her experiences screams your male socialisation for all to see)