Is it safety or separation?

LoftyRobin

Nowhere is 100% safe. But in terms of risk mitigation, if you remove the sex that commit 98% of all sex crimes, you're reducing the risk by the biggest margin possible.

Once you add in that women stand more chance defending themselves against another woman, rather than a man, you've got a workable solution for most women.

There is no way to eliminate all risk. But sex segregation eliminates most of it.

@LoftyRobin
Separation=safety.

We can't eliminate all risk. But since men commit 98% of sexual assaults, excluding men from women's facilities excludes most of the risk. Women very rarely commit any kind of assault, and sexual assault even less often.
I'm sorry about your experience but how would it be better for you if men were also able to film you on their phones without having to rope in a woman to enable them? You say single sex spaces don't protect you from assaults from women and your experience makes you feel unsafe around both women and men but why shouldn't other women benefit from the exclusion of men?

Plus we don't want them there. Privacy, dignity. Different energy. The male gaze, etc.

Men don't want women around all the time either. Privacy, dignity
Different energy.
It's normal.

I’m not in England. I don’t know about swim England. But the pool I use doesn’t allow phones and hasn’t for as long as I’ve been using it (since they re-opened after covid). There aren’t even phones allowed in the viewing areas.

furthermore my daughter plays a sport, and phones are banned in the hall at matches. And people will be - and have been - asked to leave or put their phones away.

I did not say I saw women as safe.

I specifically clarified that I see anyone I don’t know as unsafe but that I see women as less unsafe towards me in particular as they can’t physically rape me. I was physically overwhelmed by a man and strangled, raped and orally raped. And a woman can’t rape in U.K. law as they don’t possess a penis. And my changes physically against a single woman are better than against a 6ft bloke. Plus if it’s a single sex changing room, in the open area which is where I choose to change, a man is not permitted and would be ejected.

Hopefully that is clear enough.

against I’m sorry for what you experienced. But none of that means that men need to be in single sex women’s spaces.

Yes a quick Google search tells me that this became a thing in 2024. Thats when places like Swim England made it an official rule of all their events.

I bet it hasn't. That's why I find it incredulous that you see women as safe.

Yes I have. The leisure centre specifically doesn’t allow phone use in the changing rooms. There’s signs up all over the place.

Have you ever seen an explicit rule where people arent allowed phones out in the changing areas? I don't frequent such places too often, but once I did enquire at the desk about phone use in the changing rooms. A woman appeared to text and make a call, but we have no idea if it was on facetime or something. You can't always see if someone is using a camera. At the desk, they said they dont have rules forbidding phone use but of course if we believe someone was taking pics, they'd do what they can to establish if they had or not.

lol why am I not surprised

your mask is non existent

And as to this:

“Well know that there are several women who would either have enabled your rapist, denied your rape occurred, and had you demonised for talking about it. Both women who know and love your rapist, and women who just hate other women and perpetuate rape culture“

yes. I’ve had this happen. In real
life and on this board by some individuals who chose to come here to cause upset. What is it about consent that people don’t get? Why are there so many men who can’t respect a no and so many women who seek to enable them?

I can’t fix it all for you and I’m so sorry you’ve had that experience but my experience hasn’t been plain sailing either.

We are not settingvthe bar at outright sexual assault. Feeling safe matters too. That's not quite the same as feeling comfortable.

For example, I was waiting with my daughter, who is in her 20s, at a bus stop once and a man started to stare intensely at her. Our bus came and he kept staring at her through the windows. Now, my daughter was safe but she didn't feel safe.

And imagine similar in the close confines of a toilet area.

Fact is, some men like to intimidate, make us feel uncomfortable even if they are not planning to do something direct. They can still have a lot of fun.

I would report anyone using a camera in the changing rooms to the provider. I’m sorry you experienced that but phones don’t belong in changing areas. Thankfully I’ve never seen that and I’m sorry that you have experienced that.

@OneFlakyMaker
When opposing transgender people in women's spaces, are you looking for safe spaces or separate spaces?

Not that you'll be back but I couldn't give a monkeys about "trans people" what I object to is men in women's single sex spaces.

Well know that there are several women who would either have enabled your rapist, denied your rape occurred, and had you demonised for talking about it. Both women who know and love your rapist, and women who just hate other women and perpetuate rape culture.

I have the unfortunate experience of knowing this first hand so I am not appeased by a female only space at all. What I watch out for when I am in the changing rooms is the women taking pictures of your naked body to get off to later with her boyfriend. Lots of women won't bat an eyelid if a woman is on her phone while changing. They'll happily tell their daughters to strip off in front of them.

"I read one woman described it "At the club we used the women's bathroom to get a break from interacting with men."

Are you suggesting that wanting a break from being hassled, stared at and pawed at in a nightclub is somehow frivolous and not remotely related to women feeling safe?

Here's frivolous: wanting validation, wanting to offer women tampons, wanting to take selfies in a toilet mirror so your online peers can praise you, wanting to join in doing makeup at a mirror with the girls...

Is there a single reason men want in these spaces that can objectively be considered less important than women getting a break from male behaviour?

I am sorry you experienced that.

Of course women have caused me harm.

But no woman has ever raped me. I’m not saying no women are a danger - I’m saying that for me, my specific trauma is being around men in spaces where there’s a closed door between me and them.

Again, I am sorry for what you experienced but I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. I hope my clarification has helped.

i hope you have good support and counselling available to you.

Yes I was sexually abused by men, but there were women involved who enabled it and abused me in other ways. I see people as the danger, not men. It's lucky you've lived a whole life without a women ever causing you harm.

No.

But a man violently raped and sexually assaulted me and I find being around men, particularly those I don’t know really well (such as close family) and particularly in a situation where there is a closed door between me and the man (like a bathroom space) very difficult.

Why? Haven't women hurt you?

I don’t want men, however they identify, in women’s spaces. Yes this is for safety but actually I know I’m safe with my father-in-law but I still don’t want to get undressed in front of him.

I don’t feel safe anywhere. I don’t think I ever will again.

but I feel less afraid in a sex segregated space.

There has never been a space designated to women that I have felt safe. There are spaces that I've felt safe, but they haven't been spaces that are designated by gender/sex. I find it amazing that so many women feel this ultimate sense of comfort and safety with other women. That's a luxury I've certainly missed out on.

Why not both? They both go hand in hand.

Yep new name no other posts.

Will Howseitgoin will have a new friend?

Odds on OP coming back…. Slim to none. Another drive by plopper. Yay!