Is it safety or separation?

Nobody said it is. I am just bewildered that women automatically drop their guard around other women. I dont see women as that safe at all.

The likelihood of this happening is extremely low. You were very unlucky.

Digital penetration can't get you pregnant.
Penises can also pass on STDs.
I guarantee those possibilities would be on the mind of a woman who has been raped.

Understood. But nonetheless, you are.

fair enough. Please do look after yourself

Yeah i don't see it as ll that safer.

I specifically said I didn’t feel safe around anyone.

however, it is statistically fact that I am more safe around just women than I am around women and men.

And again, I’m sorry for what you experiences but allowing men into women’s spaces isn’t the answer.

To answer the OP:

Single sex spaces are not only for protecting female people from any male person who means them physical harm.

There is no evidence at all that the group of male people with transgender identities commit sex and violent crime at the same rate or less than the general female population in the UK. It would have to be proven that they did for even a logical argument to be had about that specific aspect of safeguarding.

However, safety is but one aspect of the safeguarding needs for female people. There are numerous harms.

Harms include:
-Rape and sexual assault.
-Violence.
-Sexual abuse that is not rape or sexual assault.
-Sexual abuse that also includes solo sexual acts or using the experience in future sexual acts.
-Any other abuse that may include verbal abuse, intimidation in any way etc.
-A male person's presence where female people need privacy and dignity.
-A male person's presence where female people need to feel safe from any male person's presence (over the age of about 8 years old).
-Female people self-excluding knowing that there may be a male person accessing that provision.

Narrowing the discussion to sex and violence offences does not remove these other harms from consideration for single sex spaces. However, the point is, why should any female person be subject to higher risk of any of these harms just to allow a group of male people with a philosophical belief about their identity that doesn't reflect material reality access?

Nobody has ever suggested that. What i am pointing out is why i don't feel safe in single sex spaces. It is bewilderment that other people do based on things like women not being able to meet the formal criteria of a rapist.

You don't appear to be listening. No one is 100% safe. They are just safer.

I'm sorry for what has happened to you that's left you feeling this way. I hope you have good support.

On this, you are wrong. As a PP notes, if you remove the man, you remove the risk, regardless of who is enabling and supporting him.

Nobody said it is. My bafflement is at the idea that women feel automatically safe around other women. Especially naked.

Legally, in law, a woman cannot rape. In the U.K. the definition rests upon having a penis.

I am genuinely sorry for what you experienced and my heart breaks for you, but the answer isn’t to allow men into women’s spaces. How will that make the spaces safer?

Do you understand that if you eliminate the perpetrator from the space, the risk goes with them?

If you dont realise that many of the worst men have female enablers and supporters, then you are separated from reality

Why shouldn't other women be allowed to feel safe/safer in a male-free environment because you don't feel safer in that environment? If mixed or male free is all the same to you?

And you’re entitled to your opinion and view which is informed by your trauma. And I’m sorry about that.

but the answer isn’t to allow men into single sex spaces. That makes women’s spaces more dangerous for everyone, you included.

I have never said we don't need single sex spaces, I just said that I dont see them as particularly safe. And the other person alleged that a woman cannot rape her. I am saying that you wouldn't feel better that it doesnt meet the legal definition of rape if a woman was to sexually assault her. Of course a woman can overpower you and sexually assaulted you. She just needs to be stronger and scarier than you.

I'm sorry to hear that. Not everyone sees the world in the same way you do. Some of us prefer single sex spaces. Luckily the law agrees with us

It is safety, but it's also separation (from men, not trans people, obvs).

I don't want to be partially naked near men I don't know, where I haven't consented to them seeing private parts of my body. It's like trans activists can't hear me when I say this because they simply can't get their head around the idea of women having preferences that should be honoured.

I am lucky enough never to have been seriously sexually assaulted and not to adhere to a restrictive religion. I don't 'need' single sex spaces. But I want them. More than that, I demand them. And I have a right to do so, because what women want matters.

98% of those 98% were likely enabled and ar still.supported by women. I see people as unsafe.

I do believe you. You seem not to believe me.

Men commit 98% of sexual assaults on women. Removing men statistically reduces the risk to women. And excluding men this makes women safer.

I’m sorry you were badly treated by women but the answer isn’t to disbelieve me or roll back protections that make spaces safer for women.

It's both. In certain contexts, e.g. when undressing, we women need a break from male sexual behaviour. That unwanted behaviour includes rape, but it also includes voyeurism and exhibitionism. Those behaviours may not cause us direct physical harm, but we are well aware that they are "gateway misdemeanours" for rape. We have good reason to believe (e.g. stats from the criminal justice system) that such sexual behaviours are just as prevalent among transwomen as among men as a whole, and may even be more prevalent among transwomen.

In other contexts covered by equality law, e.g. sport, the issue is more about fairness, but physical safety (i.e. safety from injury) also becomes relevant in contact sports.

And yes, sometimes we women just don't want men around. I'm in two book groups where all members are female. We don't exclude men, but none have asked to join. Our conversations drift from books to family, relationships, politics, and back to books. If men were present, the conversations would be different - not necessarily worse, just different. But we're not expecting girlie conversations to be protected by equality law, and we don't tend to hold those conversations in the toilet. That would be weird.

Does that cover it all?

Fucking hell

do you think we don't need single sex spaces because we might get fingered by a woman just as much as we might by a man??

christ

Do you understand that it is men who commit 98% of all sex crimes, not women?

Sorry to be graphic, but if a woman digitally penetrated you without consent, the last thing on your mind would be whether you were actually raped or "just" sexualy assaulted. You would have been horrifically violated and that is what would matter. Not what body part of theirs they used to do it.

Please believe me on that.