Is it safety or separation?

to clarify. Single person or single person with a carer or assistant.

And, as I read on… the tone‘s shifting again, leaving me unsure what to think about Lofty. This’ll learn me to RTFT before posting, snd not to post with bleary eyes and a muzzy head after an embarrassingly long Saturday lie-in. I’m going to follow my own early advice and bow out, but with heartfelt sympathy sent to all survivors before leaving.

There’s a reason disabled toilets - which are single sex enclosed single person - have the red string pull to alert of an accident.

Some women are definitely a danger to their own kids. Therefore all children should be removed, at birth, and raised in Children's homes where they will be perfectly safe...erm!

Alternatively, we recognise that risk can be mitigated and take reasonable steps to facilitate that.

I'm embarrassed that individual, fully enclosed cubicles bring their own problems that had totally slipped my mind.

Eta Hello @Keeptoiletssafe I was just reminded of you 👋

I hope people who are looking at why single sex toilets are so important for vulnerable people, look at threads like this with an open mind and think about the points raised.

For example Lady Hale when she mentioned gender-neutral toilets. People of influence, making decisions really need to see the arguments people use to try and promote a mixed sex space with completely private cubicles off them.

I tend not to and as I've said many times, I've promoted single sex spaces with individual cubicles.

Why can’t we have both as I have described?

I agree that the behaviour of this poster is disturbing in regards to their reactions to other's needs. I also have not quite understood at all what it is they mean to achieve here because it seems to be just a replay of 'you can't expect 100% safety, so why bother'. The points raised so far have been inconsistent, rendering them incoherent.

A solution that works for all women is single sex spaces with a mix of communal changing areas and cubicles, with no men being allowed in there, regardless of how they identify.

I don’t know what you mean by this. Which is a No, probably. 🙂 My responses to you on this thread have been unusual for me, to be honest. I usually work really hard to give all posters the benefit of he doubt and show empathy to all. I feel a little awkward rereading them, as they show a wariness about your motives I usually try to resist, remembering that behind the screen and keyboard are real, and potentially vulnerable, people. I did find your early responses to Taztoy upsetting and unnecessarily visceral, so posted in defence of her. If these are a reflection of your own trauma, then I’m sorry for this and quite genuinely wish you all the best - but would ask that you acknowledge others‘ trauma, too, and maybe think about what the responses you get are both arguing and exemplifying: women do tend to be safer, and more respectful of and empathetic towards each others‘ needs, than men. Goodness knows, this is not to say always. I’ve suffered at the hands of bullies in a way that’s likely scarred me for life. But recognising how our perceptions of risk shape our reality can help us recover from such experience, as far as this is possible. Facts and stats are relevant here, and looked at from another perspective, could, perhaps, offer you some reassurance and comfort.

So if it’s just supposition that’s really not going to help your case. Sorry.

there certainly are women who behave in the way you have described, however I only remember a few cases, whereas I can find and think of thousands upon thousands of cases where men have behaved similarly.

If you do come across the stats, please do share them.

OK, so don't go anywhere there are people then.

The rest of us will take calculated risks and try to minimise the most obvious threats to our own safety and wellbeing. Single sex spaces help with that.

All I've argued for is single sex spaces with cubicles and it seems like because I dont promote communal nudity for women, it's a problem. Really weird.

I dont dislike women. I distrust people

Accurate stats? No because many of the women who have done that would not have bene.investigated or would escape conviction. We know it happens though. One prominent case I can think of was that music artist who was convicted a prolific paedophile. There were mothers sending him pictures of their children. Not sure what happened to those mothers. I think one might have been prosecuted.

Your dislike and distrust of women due to your experiences are clouding your judgement and thinking about why we have single sex facilities. We have such facilities because of accepted statistics around sexual offending behaviours and a millennia of experience.

have you got stats for that? I’m interested in looking at them. So I can assess the risk.

I doubt she'd find time, what with all the naked pictures she's nabbing in the communal changing rooms.

The scary thing is that they likely wouldn't be prosecuted as it would be argued that she was made to by him and didnt know better. We know that women have sent pedophiles pictures of children. Even their own children

And those women would be wrong.

If you were to report those men, there would be at least one woman saying that you are lying, wanted it, or are just bitter that he likes her more

Now you're just making stuff up. I've been groped by men, there were no women steering their hands.

Phones are slim enough to slip under partitions, you need eyes in the back of your head to see them. Have there been any women convicted for taking stealth pics of other women? They must be vanishingly rare.

I'm not sure of your point?

Most single sex facilities do already have separate cubicles for toileting or changing, Though some, such as in gyms or swimming pools, have a communal changing area too.

The main advantage of having a strictly female-only changing room or toilet is that you can have cubicles and a shared space. With overall good visibility, including door gaps that will mitigate for in-cubicle assaults, bad behaviour, and medical mishaps. And a much reduced chance of anyone coming in who can easily overpower a woman or who is statistically more likely to plant cameras. This thread is nuts.

I’ve offered to send mnhq my colonoscopy letter and provide them my crime number. I’ve just emailed them.

you did accuse me of making it up. I’m not.