Shon Faye - 'well, it's over' - a brief eulogy for the "trans rights" movement.

Indeed.

I think you mean “teetering” rather than tittering, yes? I am tittering at “Enjoy ur erasure” Shon though.

Christ ….. you do realise that “it’s over” because we are all tittering on the fucking edge of right wing fascism taking over - we are a couple of years behind the US. The same people who have pushed back the trans movement will now happily strip women of our rights, bodily autonomy and want us back in the bloody kitchen serving them.
no - not celebrating at all

🤣 👏

"beaten and killed"

Eclipsed in both earnings and opportunity

"Significantly less employable as a class"

"minimises the gravity of the situation and the depth of my grief and exhaustion and fear"

"I am learning to live alongside a new kind of anger"

"I have survived... sexual violence"

"expected to put a brave face on everything!"

"I’ll survive whatever happens"

That's about as authentic as it gets to truly live a a woman's experience, Buddy. If this is what you wanted, then welcome.

I'll agree with Shon this far - the concept of "passing" is very unhealthy

Passing offers a flimsy form of acceptance based on being presumed to be something other than you are. I see passing dolls bragging about it all the time now – insecurity and fear transmuted into intracommunity meanness. It’s really nothing to feel superior about – it’s merely a different form of inferiority to enjoy safety and dignity in public only because (of your disguise - my wording because Shon's description of women as the "oppressors" of men is ridiculous.

I hope that in the future transwomen will be free and liberated to live openly as who they are - male people who utterly reject male stereotypes and embrace female ones, consciously destroying those stereotypes as a part of a progressive and liberal society. Entirely accepted within a context where everyone knows that sex and gender are two different things, and that the existence of single sex spaces and opportunities does not reduce the rights and freedoms of trans people because it's clear the spaces and opportunities are single sex not singie gender and everyone understands the difference and attempts to muddy the waters are spotted and called out.

Acceptance and dignity for transwomen as male people who are entirely valid and not criticised for their lifestyle choice, valued and safe, still understood as male but never forced into a masculine role, is an important step to defusing the harmful vitriol that a relatively minor proportion of trans activists push. "Passing" then doesn't need to be a goal because nothing is gained thereby, due to there being no difference in the respect and dignity afforded to a transwoman who is very far from passing vs one who is closer to passing. Indeed, "passing" would gradually become in some sense "stigmatised" because if society gives transwomen respect and dignity regardless of "passing", the desire to "pass" is only going to remain for those whose main goal is to abuse single-sex spaces - ie the ones who are actively dangerous.

Bless, the budgie returns!

No body should ever look or expect to make a living from their fucking identity any more than they should expect to make a living from their personality.
Your identity is not a talent or an accomplishment. It does it bring anything meaningful to society. It has real meaning and value only to you. You should not expect to be able to monetise it. And you don't get to moan when your grift gets rumbled.

Fuck off and get a proper job

I can't type much, (phone problems) but I'd like to say what profound pleasure that article gave me.

Shon Faye is a rancid misogynist, who has made it all too clear the contempt he has for our sex. To see him acknowledge that the game is.up brings me a shameless and deep satisfaction. Enjoy your erasure, eh, sweetie?

Medical malpractice lawyer?

Thank you very much for that oldreddit link @eatfigs .

There are some comments on there that I’m very pleased to read, essentially saying that there are trans people who just get on with their lives in ordinary jobs.

Here’s part of one from bluewingedyoshi:

I saw Shon Faye host a panel at Glastonbury a year and a half ago on trans liberation, on the panel were other trans writers.
…
Just putting on some moderately smart clothes on, grabbing your lanyard, water bottle and handbag and going to work did not compute, nobody on the panel had anything at all to say when a young trans person asked about their concerns around navigating the office whilst trans because none had ever done so.
…
Will life be harder for us? Yup! Will moving to new employers be harder than before? Probably! But it’s through this critical pathway where qualifications and experience are achieved and built upon that trans future in Britain lies.
Any young trans person reading this, go crush your A-levels, go study something with a strong future and solid job security, go develop yourself knowing that it is worth while because you don’t need to work in EDI, after dinner speaking, writing or sex work, because your future is yours to craft.
…
Edit: just add in case this is useful to anyone that some of the secure employment areas that I know trans people have jobs in are as follows: academia, teaching, coding, software development, software support, accounting, marketing and so many areas all across the NHS.

My edit: MN coding has changed the Reddit poster’s name. It’s blue underscore winged underscore yoshi, without the gaps.
It’s what I’d like to say to the people I’ve taught who identify as trans: it’s not your only quality, there are other aspects to you. Study, get qualifications, do something that interests you as well.

Securing access to reasonable employment is something we should be supporting for trans people. I thought this during the M&S bra fitting debacle. However, that means access to jobs both without discrimination, but also without the job having to be a platform for their reflexive enjoyment of their own identity. Work doesn't have to be all about them being trans. It's probably not wise for M&S to train them as bra fitters, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to be managers, cashiers, cleaners, lorry drivers and so on for M&S where their authentic selves aren't relevant because they just have to show up and do the job. If you can do that, Shon, you'll be ok. Though somehow I doubt you can.

I'm not sorry for them at all. If they want to portray themselves as a giant wall of sad, then crack on.

They are still delusional and frequently aggressive men.

Shana, they bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into.

I say, let 'em crash.

If you truly believe yourself to be the opposite sex, backed up by mountains of queer theory (which is all balls but is a whole industry) it must be thoroughly strange to have your identity discussed at a national scale. It’s not that I have sympathy for Shon, necessarily, but I can’t help seeing some trans people as having severe disorders of the self (there are some others that are just fucking chancers and perverts) but given the way this has been politicised by both the left and the right I can’t help but see Shon as having also been gaslighted to some extent. What was essentially a psychological problem has become a political identity.

I actually don’t think Shon walks around all day feeling like a woman, whatever that means, I think they walk around with a huge sense of self loathing that isn’t going to go away when society reaches this magical leave of trans acceptance the far left are envisioning.

If this had stayed as essentially a tiny curio of an issue rather than the new ideological purity test we’d all be in a better situation here. Shon has done a huge amount to put us in this situation, so my sympathies are somewhat limited, but how horrible would it be to be so at war with your own body. What issues happened in Shon’s life that the solution was to undergo all this surgery and hassle.

wasn't he the one whose advice to young TIMs was something like 'get tits early and be really slutty'?

This 💯

Yep. I’m quoting him. Who’s the losers now Shonny boy?

god that whole thing was one huge role play. Shon giving us his 'sad, angry, vulnerable but strong laydee'

Trans women are expected to put a brave face on everything! They’re calling for vigilante violence against us on the news. Let me have my fucking grief!

just use the gents Shon. You'll be fine

Not sure. I've been somewhat regularly poring through the trans forums after the SC judgement came out as a curiosity to see how they're all reacting to it and as a consequence I'm now feeling quite sorry for them as a group. It's probably related to that.

This reads like the seeding of a reinvention

(see also Milo Y - apparently that scum is reforming and using the assassination of Charlie Kirk as an excuse).

Shon Faye and his 'women, enjoy your erasure' was when I peaked. I felt so despondent and lost back then. Today is a day I thought I'd never see. Thank you Mumsnet.

😂😂

He'd probably enjoy that.

But may all his shits be hedgehogs.

Nope, can’t find any pity.