Men in women’s groups.

LOL, so your argument is:

1. Female people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for women or not, are all still women
2. Male people who exhibit social behaviours and preferences considered "average" for women are also women.

And bang, just like that your entire argument for why trans women are women is undone.

Because if female people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for women or not, are all still women, then male people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for men or not, are all still men.

You can't have it both ways.

The reason you fell into this error is of course because you have never had any rational model for trans women's womanhood in the first place.

Because it didn't start with logic, facts and rationality, it started with desire, and demand, and projection. Everything that came after is just trans women's retconning to justify why what they want for irrational and emotional reasons is something they have a right to be given.

And thank you @FlirtsWithRhinos for being so understanding.

I know my view seems simplistic. But. The law says no. And I say no. I’m legally allowed to. What about that is problematic? It’s a consent violation for men to come into women’s spaces where they aren’t legally allowed. In exactly the same way as it’s a consent violation for a man to insert his penis into me without my consent, which means he’s not legally allowed to put it there.

Why is one ok and the other not ok?

To me, if we (as a society in the U.K.) weaken same sex provisions we weaken all protections that stand on consent.

It was January this year. It’s not even been to court yet.

Oh Jesus. I just saw this. For some reason I thought your experience was much longer ago. Not that how long ago it was makes a difference to how important it is, but to have that happen to you while this public debate over what safety measures is it reasonable for women to expect from society is going on must make it so personal. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, I’m glad there are women here stating and restating the logical arguments against this ‘on balance I’m a woman’ bullshit

I salute your patience

I know. But it's still worth saying even if Howie is only pretending to be here in good faith.

To be fair I love a good hat.

I think it means you can join men’s groups and discuss prostate issues because you aren’t feminine enough for women’s groups.
Theres a mysterious sorting hat that tells you if you are feminine or masculine enough.

So you are a male person who is ‘super feminine’ and believes that their interests are on balance more in common with women, so that is why you say you are a woman?

Because you followed it up with :

“So it's an on balance thing & values dependant in terms of what weight a person places on a trait/s that makes them defining.”

You see, female people who have reached maturity don’t have to balance anything. They are women whether their interests are ‘on balance’ more in common with female people than male people. I work in a male dominant industry, I don’t present ‘feminine’, I have interests that are not ‘on balance’ most common with women.

I don’t have to justify my existence as a woman at all. I just am because I have a body formed around the production of large gametes regardless of the production status of large gametes and I reached maturity. Thank you for clarifying though.

Don’t hold your breath. I’ve been trying to get them to answer me.

and bear in mind, if you address them directly, and they answer you and you follow up they might - even though your name is on your posts clearly - if they haven’t noticed that it’s you because if they had they wouldn’t have engaged - they’ll make out that’ll be your fault and they’ll say you’re harassing them by answering the posts they made to you.

What are the super powers of the super feminine? Maybe @Howseitgoin will enlighten us?

I’m not super feminine.

does that mean I’m a man?

I'm super feminine

😂

sure

Good luck Flirts. This same discussion has been repeated on multiple threads now for weeks.

So now there’s a side conversation going on involving ME and what was said to me that I’m not allowed to participate in or I’ll be called names, again.

What happened to taking personal responsibility for one’s own mistakes and debating fairly and respectfully? Without insulting people on the grounds of protected characteristics and whilst still respecting the other person’s point of view?

It’s better to keep making the person you don’t allow a right of reply to keep reliving their most traumatic ever event for your entertainment.

got it.

Committing sexusl crimes with / for a male partner, which is the usual situation for female sex offenders. Scratch the surface and it comes back to men. See also Myra Hindley.

In what way did I speak to her?

You had posts removed earlier in the thread for how you spoke to Taztoy. The harasser is you.

That's irrelevant, I've asked you to stop so please respect that.

My user name is on my posts. It’s not my fault you didn’t read it. That is, as the kids say, a you problem.

Indeed.

And haven't generations of feminists been fighting against women being defined by reference to these exact same reductive stereotypes?

But none of this "feminine/male coded" stuff is very interesting to anyone else except you. We cannot read peoples minds or examine how their thoughts align with gender stereotypes they were exposed to in their upbringing. What we can see and what matters is what sex they are.

Go away and stop harassing me. I would not have engaged with you if I had realised who you were!

Not answering the question.

I see.

To expand on this.

If my rapist identified as female would that have meant they didn’t rape me? Would that have meant they didn’t have the necessary appendage for rape? Would it have meant they weren’t bigger and stronger than me and capable of strangling me til I passed out and wet myself and using a hand at my throat to keep me in place? Could they think their way out of being capable of rape?