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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men in women’s groups.

513 replies

gingangirly · 19/09/2025 10:43

Really unsure if I’m being unreasonable, but what do others think?

I belong to a FB group for women over 65 in my town. They have lots of get togethers, at least a couple a week. A few months ago there was a vote after a man requested to join. The overwhelming majority said no. If they want a similar group, start their own. Fair enough.

However there is a trans woman that has been welcomed with open arms. He would NOT pass as a woman, not quite a bloke in a wig but certainly you would know he was trans.

What do people think about this? Acceptable or not? I’m am totally the ‘live and let live’ but seems a bit disingenuous to ban men but not trans women?

OP posts:
Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 18:09

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 18:07

Look, as long as you're not running some sort of club or association and applying non legally compliant membership criteria, it doesn't matter, does it?

I never said from when I very first posted on the matter that I was running a club, just that if I was a member of a club I wouldn't have an issue with them allowing trans women. Yet people have not accepted that.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 18:07

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 18:05

There has been pages and pages of people not understanding that my feelings on the matter might be different to theirs and arguing the toss with me endlessly.

Look, as long as you're not running some sort of club or association and applying non legally compliant membership criteria, it doesn't matter, does it?

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 18:05

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 18:01

Why would we? It's not really relevant to the discussion though.

There has been pages and pages of people not understanding that my feelings on the matter might be different to theirs and arguing the toss with me endlessly.

Taztoy · 21/09/2025 18:02

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:59

Thank you! At last someone is saying they don't have a problem with the fact I don't have an issue with it!

Because there is legally a difference between a social night organised in a household friendship context on the hoof with a bunch of people going out and the sex make up of a group or other non-household organisation that seeks to be for one or other of the two sexes.

I don’t care what anyone does on nights out with their friends. That’s entirely up to them. But it’s not the same as a group that purports to be solely for women or solely for men.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 18:01

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:59

Thank you! At last someone is saying they don't have a problem with the fact I don't have an issue with it!

Why would we? It's not really relevant to the discussion though.

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 21/09/2025 18:00

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:50

I wouldn't take him seriously after a day or a month.

So when would you take him seriously? I don't understand what your criteria are?

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:59

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:55

What feelings? That you'd be happy to include a trans identifying man in prosecco night with the girls? Fine, knock yourself out, the law doesn't concern itself with policing who you socialise with.

Thank you! At last someone is saying they don't have a problem with the fact I don't have an issue with it!

Taztoy · 21/09/2025 17:57

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:55

What feelings? That you'd be happy to include a trans identifying man in prosecco night with the girls? Fine, knock yourself out, the law doesn't concern itself with policing who you socialise with.

Exactly. De minimus non curat lex.

But. It is impossible to quantify an illegal enterprise (I think Sutton v Mischon de Reya off the top of my head but I’ll double check) so therefore regardless of “feelings” if it’s illegal it’s illegal. And you can’t opt out of the law.

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:56

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:53

I wouldn't take him seriously after 20 years.

And that's your choice. We are two different people who are allowed to think differently on the same subject.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:55

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:54

I don't care if it is, doesn't change my feelings on the matter.

What feelings? That you'd be happy to include a trans identifying man in prosecco night with the girls? Fine, knock yourself out, the law doesn't concern itself with policing who you socialise with.

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:54

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:52

The Equality Act isn't interested in your friendship groups.

I don't care if it is, doesn't change my feelings on the matter.

Taztoy · 21/09/2025 17:53

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:52

The Equality Act isn't interested in your friendship groups.

But that is the thing that that poster and the other on this thread don’t want to acknowledge. That the law says no. And somehow they don’t understand the word no.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:53

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:50

I wouldn't take him seriously after a day or a month.

I wouldn't take him seriously after 20 years.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:52

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:51

Some do yes. I don't care about that in relation to a friendship group I'm part of.

The Equality Act isn't interested in your friendship groups.

Taztoy · 21/09/2025 17:51

And if it’s a women’s group either you admit all men or you tell him he’s not allowed in because he’s male. That’s the law.

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:51

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:38

And yet men say they are women all the time to gain access to places they shouldn't be.

Some do yes. I don't care about that in relation to a friendship group I'm part of.

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:50

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 21/09/2025 17:36

What if he said it the day after? Or after a month? What changes? He's still the same person. You still don't know his motives.

I wouldn't take him seriously after a day or a month.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 17:38

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:27

If he turned around and said that directly after being refused as a man, no I would know fine well he wasn't serious and just chancing it or trying to make a point. So I wouldn't feel bad if he was refused again

Edited

And yet men say they are women all the time to gain access to places they shouldn't be.

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 21/09/2025 17:36

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:27

If he turned around and said that directly after being refused as a man, no I would know fine well he wasn't serious and just chancing it or trying to make a point. So I wouldn't feel bad if he was refused again

Edited

What if he said it the day after? Or after a month? What changes? He's still the same person. You still don't know his motives.

Anchorage56 · 21/09/2025 17:27

gilletwoes · 21/09/2025 16:48

@Anchorage56 thank you for trying to explain your position and continuing to answer queries on it. Can I ask how you would feel if the man who asked to join and was refused now said actually I’m going to call myself Betty and wear lipstick would you then change your mind and allow him to join?

If he turned around and said that directly after being refused as a man, no I would know fine well he wasn't serious and just chancing it or trying to make a point. So I wouldn't feel bad if he was refused again

gilletwoes · 21/09/2025 16:48

@Anchorage56 thank you for trying to explain your position and continuing to answer queries on it. Can I ask how you would feel if the man who asked to join and was refused now said actually I’m going to call myself Betty and wear lipstick would you then change your mind and allow him to join?

Coatsoff42 · 21/09/2025 16:32

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 21/09/2025 15:19

Yeah, I’m glad there are women here stating and restating the logical arguments against this ‘on balance I’m a woman’ bullshit

I salute your patience

It’s probably years of saying the same thing every day with great patience.
You can’t identify out of needing to brush your teeth and go to bed either.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 21/09/2025 16:32

Howseitgoin · 21/09/2025 14:18

As I said I'm super feminine & posses personality traits & behaviours more common in women but some of my 'interests' are male coded. On balance my personality is more female associated.

So it's an on balance thing & values dependant in terms of what weight a person places on a trait/s that makes them defining.

You are a man & don't have a clue what being a woman entails even if you imagine you conform to some sexist stereotype of feminine behaviour.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 15:55

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/09/2025 15:33

LOL, so your argument is:

  1. Female people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for women or not, are all still women
  2. Male people who exhibit social behaviours and preferences considered "average" for women are also women.

And bang, just like that your entire argument for why trans women are women is undone.

Because if female people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for women or not, are all still women, then male people of any social behaviours and preferences, "average" for men or not, are all still men.

You can't have it both ways.

The reason you fell into this error is of course because you have never had any rational model for trans women's womanhood in the first place.

Because it didn't start with logic, facts and rationality, it started with desire, and demand, and projection. Everything that came after is just trans women's retconning to justify why what they want for irrational and emotional reasons is something they have a right to be given.

Edited

But also:

  1. Male people who exhibit social behaviours considered average for men are also women if they say they are.
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 15:51

Howseitgoin · 21/09/2025 14:12

Um you are confusing fact with feelings. The sexes sharing personality traits is scientifically uncontroversial.

As far as managing sports goes most major sporting organisations have or are in the process of changing the rules so that only trans women who can prove they have no male competitive edge can compete with them which is a fair outcome. In terms of women's spaces, accomodations have been managed in law for countries with strong support.

Um you are confusing fact with feelings. The sexes sharing personality traits is scientifically uncontroversial.

You misspelled "misogynistic bollocks".

And you still haven't explained what personality traits I share with Karen White.

As far as managing sports goes most major sporting organisations have or are in the process of changing the rules so that only trans women who can prove they have no male competitive edge can compete with them which is a fair outcome.

All trans identifying men have a male competitive advantage. Because they are male.

In terms of women's spaces, accomodations have been managed in law for countries with strong support.

No idea what this word salad is supposed to mean.