Men in women’s groups.

Why do some women not understand how a forum works?

Why do some women not understand what please stop harassing me means.

Do you understand that my life and that of very many women like me is in danger by allowing men into women’s single sex spaces?

I don't need to stand up for anyone. People could stand up for me or not. I don't expect anything from people who don't know me, other than common courtesy and politeness. If I saw someone about to drive after drinking then I might call the police because a life or lives could be in danger.

Sorry forgot to quote.

edit to add and I don’t understand why people don’t get it. Why they don’t understand how much of a violation it is. How it’s a consent issue. How it’s I SAY NO. And how slippery a slope weakening those protections is.

What is it about trans and the Supreme Court ruling that means it’s ok for people to say they’d break the law but they’d never dream of drink driving?

I know. But that’s my point.

to the poster who is expounding that it’s just how they feel and it’s no big deal - it doesn’t matter to them, it’s not a big deal to them.

But. To me. I’m the equivalent of the person who had their family wiped out by a drunk driver. I’m the person who needs the single sex spaces. And I make the “don’t mind” people uncomfortable because I don’t sit down and shut up. Because I keep saying it. It is the law. You can’t do this. It is as a result of an awful thing that happened to me that I feel so strongly.

I don’t think the family of those killed by a drunk driver would be misunderstood even when posting clear posts, subjected to being tone policed, or asked (after explaining why they felt as they did) but why.

Sorry @Taztoy it was an hypothetical argument not a real feeling.
I don’t think anyone should get over deaths from drink driving.
I just don’t think people should be so easy to pick and choose which laws they care about whether or not they harm others.

I do live in a rural area with a bit of drink driving. I don’t. But I do wish the police would be a bit stricter. If they earned fines out of it I think they would be on it a bit more.

You know I think I’ll decide I’m ok with drink driving and I’ll go on a thread on here and tell everyone my feelings on it are that’s it fine.

and everyone who is appalled and has lost family members to drunk driving I’ll just tell them it’s just my feelings and they should get over it!

As long as you would stand up for people less vocal and more vulnerable than you, that’s fine.
I’m not personally bothered about drink driving, but I would report someone driving their kids around drunk.

I'm very happy with my ethics thank you. If I'm a member of a group with more than 25 people I'd expect the group to act according to whatever rules are in place, I just personally don't have an issue with it.

Yes, it’s wrong, I mean it’s legally wrong, it breaches the equality act, and it will negatively affect other people, but @Anchorage56 and @gingangirly and all of us choose our ethical paths.

If the law gets involved that’s one thing, but with or without tribunals, we all live with our ethically dubious choices and have it on our consciences that we have likely fucked someone else over to make ourselves a bit more likeable (simper simper, hair twirl, I’m so cool) and not be boring and wang on defending people more vulnerable and less vocal.
Why is it always boring to be responsible for others?

Perhaps. Honestly it's not any more deep than I simply don't mind if a trans woman wishes to join a female group I'm a member of. Its that straight forward. Having a thought about something is completely different from enforcing that thought and forcing others to follow suit.

Yeah, I'm baffled. I'm struggling to think of a current MN poster who comes across as more stereotypically masculine. It must be something other than his communication skills.

If you won’t obey the single sex law, as clarified by the Supreme Court, what other laws are you willing to break? Wheat is it about this one that means you consider it ok to break?

For me it’s the law. Every day. And always. And I might - depending on how invested I was in the group - take action for an EA breach if they purported to be women only and allowed a man to join.

A bit like, if you were a chain smoker you wouldn't mind your favourite pub ignoring the smoking ban, even if it was unpleasant for other customers?

Ah! Yet another thread where @Howseitgoinshows us that he is a very feminine, agreeable, sensitive, empathic, nurturing, compassionate, emotionally expressive, understanding and cooperative individual who enjoys feminine aesthetics & interests more common to women.

I'm not complaining about anything just replying to the endless responses from people who either don't understand why I feel the way I do or won't accept it, or simply answering the questions they have put to me.

Oh that is good. Because earlier today you said you didn't understand why people disagreed with you. And frankly I felt that was a bit off since I'd explained my position to you directly and you'd even replied, so I knew you did understand even if you disgree.

So, we know what your views are and we disagree with you. So what exactly are you complaining about again?

Oh yes: people "not understanding that my feelings on the matter might be different to theirs and arguing the toss with me endlessly."

I think you have to accept that, like you, they do understand, they just disagree.

I think you can let a man into a women’s group, that’s up to you, much like paying someone you know is dodging tax/child support in cash.
Is it personal morality? Is it societal responsibility? Is it the law?

I don't need to have it both ways. I know the various reasons why some are against it. All I'm doing is endlessly defending my views.

Not under those circumstances I wouldn't no.

Because the law doesn’t care what your view on it is. The law says that if it is a group or club that states it is single sex then your view is irrelevant. The law is that if the club or group purports to be single sex then that means it has to be single sex - either all men or all women and those terms mean the biological sex. So a trans woman is a man and a trans man is a woman for the purposes of the legislation.

No, there have been pages and pages of people pointing out that acting in line with your "feelings" on this matter has significant issues for many women and of you refusing to recognise that.

You are angry that no one is saying "oh fair enough, I disagree but your feelings are as valid as anyone else's" but at the same time you refuse to acknowledge the valid reasons other people think your position is a bad one.

Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

You wouldn't think there was anything wrong with them breaking the law?