Men in women’s groups.

That’s just semantics. Is there any difference between clarification and removal to someone who can’t live their life as they used to?

By the way. Their right wasn’t taken away.

The law had been misapplied and they had been led to believe they had a right to be in a women’s single sex space that they never had. That is the decision of the Supreme Court. So no right was taken away, their rights and the rights of all humans in the uk to single sex spaces based on their natal sex, was clarified.

Their rights as transgender individuals remain as they were. Those rights have not been removed from them.

If the law was clarified. And I could no longer do it? Yes of course I would stop. I would not ever break the law. Not ever.

And as you said. It’s what would a reasonable person think. So the law would have to make a determination as to whether or not it was reasonable to allow men to break the law.

I specifically made sure, for example, that my counselling group was women only prior to the case and if the decision had been the other way and men were allowed, I would have left the group. I wouldn’t have made a fuss. I would just have left.

Because I don’t think they are doing with the intent to make anyone uncomfortable intentionally. Most people are just trying to get through their day with the least fuss possible.

The protections are not pointless. You assert your rights under the EA by taking the organisation that allowed trans people in the space to a tribunal.

I can understand why someone might not comply. If you had the right to do something and from had no problems do so, and were suddenly that right was taken away, would you comply?

Given that the law has been clarified, how is it not harassment for a man to force his way into a women’s single sex space?

I won’t necessarily win - I know that. The police might decide to NFA it. The CPS might decide not to prosecute. I can’t control that. But I can - and would if it comes to it - do my best to fight it. Because otherwise the protections in the EA are pointless.

what is it with these men that they don’t understand consent and have such an issue with being told no? Why can’t they obey the law?

A reasonable person also has to consider the same actions as harassment

Indeed they do have to undertake two separate instances of harassing behaviour for it to be legally actionable. I’d keep meticulous records I can assure you.

The section 1 offence is that the person must not pursue a course of conduct
(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and
(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

I would inform the trans woman very clearly that their attempt to illegally enter a women’s single sex space was actions that I was deeming harassment and that I would be reporting them to the police if they continued. And I would do so.

The law says men can’t come in to women’s single sex spaces. How is not harassment of women for men to force their way into these spaces?

Harassment has to occur two or more times so you won’t have any success reporting random trans people you encounter. The trans person must also intend to cause harassment, and I don’t think a TIM using the toilet is going there specifically to make someone uncomfortable

Quite. I'm in agreement with the OP, neither man should be allowed in. They rejected the first one after a vote but allowed the trans identifying in without a vote, I presume.

By take action against the individual trans woman I mean I would report their harassing actions of me to the police with evidence of same and ask that the police apply the law.

I would also, should they continue, apply for a stalking prevention order.

This is the post that brought up trying it on.

As you will see, I was not the poster who brought that up.

I can empathise with feeling distrustful and scared of random men. I wasn’t fortunate enough and was sexually assaulted by a man when I was younger and it messed me up for many years. I’ve know some trans women over the years and I don’t think you can tar them all with the same brush, but a small part of me still reels uncomfortable when someone is very obviously trans

I didn’t bring up someone trying it on. I answered someone else’s comment. That wasn’t me.

I would, as I’ve said, seek to take a club to court should they not comply with the EA in this area, if it were a club or organisation I was sufficiently invested in emotionally or that was in some other way important to me.

I would also seek to take action against the individual trans woman who was forcing their way into the space and refusing to be told no on the grounds that it constituted harassment of me under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

You’re the one who brought up men trying it on so I thought that was important to you.

There is a significant difference between drink driving and personally not complying with the Equality Act. One has penalties for the individual and the other doesn’t.

I think it’s clear her ‘issue’ (ie perfectly understandable reason) is that she can distinguish males from females. Nothing to do with whatever gender identity they may or may not have.

Im fortunate enough never to have been sexually or physically assaulted but I can understand why a woman who has suffered this and continues to suffer from a trauma response needs to know that anything described as being for women really is for women - single sex, female only.

no idea why this eludes some people, it seems very obvious.

Whatever they are, they’re men. And if a group is a single sex women’s group they aren’t allowed. That’s what the law says.

Why is this so hard to understand? I don’t get it. Genuinely. I don’t drink and drive. Even if there was an infinitesimal chance of being caught I still wouldn’t drink and drive. Because the law says that’s illegal.

Why is this different?

I guess it's a bit late to be suddenly needing to ice a cake....

Yep, it's a bit of a shock facing the reality of trans womanhood in all its glory. I can see why you'd need a lie down.

Hopefully things will start to become clearer for you after a nice sleep.

Is your issue just that you can’t differentiate between men “trying it on” and TIMs?

Time for bed! Night night

I like how everyone is assuming I'm in some position of authority in this made up group, the judge jury and executioner. I'll repeat what I've said many times, I would be happy to accept a trans woman but I would also be happy to go with the majority opinion of the group. And I would assume the people I choose to be friends with would have the brains to realise the difference, and if they didn't I'd exit the group!

And convert the group to mixed sex?

The lyrics say it all too -

https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/2024/04/22/im-better-than-you-jordan-gray/

I’d take great pleasure in telling him no.

I'm sorry, did you not know about this?

Jordan Gray. Well known trans woman performer and activist.

Jordan played the piano with her cock to demonstrate how women can be proud of their cocks and still be 100% all woman.

It was hardly obscure, it was on Channel 4 a few years ago.

You must realise these are the women you are championing? Not lovely Hayley from Corrie (played by an actual woman) but intact blokes whose experience of "womanhood" has very little to do with the realities of life as a female person and everything to do with male people feeling entitled to take whatever they want including the name "woman"?