Men in women’s groups.

That difference is just inside their heads though. It's just based on their own self image and whether they project their own sexist ideas about what types of minds men have and what types of minds women have onto other people as well.

Outside those men's heads, what is the actual difference between them?

So it is because they wish to change sex that you consider them different to the other male who was rejected.

If a male adult person felt that they were a child, do they think they should be accepted in a children’s group?

Why do you make allowances for ‘sex’ vs any other unchangeable aspect of a person’s identity?

No it's out of understanding.

Because if a man identifies as a man he wont join a group that says its for females. Just like I wouldn't join a man's club.

So it’s out of pity? Feeling sorry for them?

Yes biologically they are both men. But I can see a difference between a man who wishes to stay as a man (which of course is the majority of men) and men who feel they are female.

I guess I can understand how they would feel if they wished to 'change sex' or felt they were born into the wrong body. I can accept that and I can understand that. Agreed it doesnt change the biology but that personally doesnt bother me.

Yeah I understand some people wouldnt like it, just stating my opinion 😊

This is actually a significant difference. It really does come down to respecting female people’s boundaries. And in cases of other female people in the group, whether other female people respect those boundaries.

I don’t think some women understand that if a group was formed for female people then letting in male people when it is known that enough of the group rejects male people is ignoring those women’s, those who don’t want male people included, boundaries. If the women dismissing other’s boundaries are doing this with full knowledge that they are doing this, fine. But I wonder if they acknowledge that they are doing this.

Men who don’t respect women’s boundaries.

Nope it’s not obvious otherwise I wouldn’t ask? Why should a man with a genuine interest in the topic be excluded but a trans identifying male who may just be seeking a friend group be admitted?

There isn’t a difference. They’re both just men.

What is the difference in your opinion ?

Edited: I note you say there is a difference because they ‘identify’ as female. But what does this actually change? They are not female in anyway.

Their identity is based on their philosophical belief and is not based on material reality. So why should this be considered significant to allow one male person access and one to be excluded.

I don’t care how you identify because that’s flawed thinking

the space is for females

who Are not females because they identify as such but because of a cruel twist of fate that sees them tied to female biology and a patriarchal misogynistic society

see if it was a group for people who identify as female then a transwomen should be welcome
but its for females however they identify

there are various reasons transowmen want to be part of female only groups and only some of those reasons are valid

the evidence is that transowomen are as sexually obsessed and patriarchal in nature any other man

Your instinct is correct, OP. Practically speaking, your best option is to start another group - if you're the leader, you can set the rules and explain to anyone who joins that one thing that will not be up for debate is the women-only rule.
And encourage the first man to try again for membership of the first group since they are now taking men. 😉

But the TW/TIM joining changes the group from single sex to mixed sex.
That isn't fair on the women who joined wanting a single sex group.

Why does that need explaining. Surely it's obvious. I've also explained my opinion upthread.

For me I can see a difference. If you identify as female and wish female friends then I can see why you would join a women's group. If you are a biological man and dont wish to be a woman then I dont know why you would join a womans only group as you would know you arent a woman. I wouldnt join a man's only club. I might still wish to make male friends but I wouldnt join a man's only club in order to do that.

If the non trans man is genuinely interested in the subject matter of the group he cannot be permitted to join? But the trans identifying male can join? Why?

Well again personally speaking I wouldnt understand why a man would want to join a woman's group. But like I just said I can understand why a trans woman would. I can see the difference.

Not necessarily. Even though a trans man is biologically female, if she looks very much like a man and exhibits certain stereotypical male behaviours, she might not be welcomed with open arms. Wasn't that the point of being able to exclude some transmen from womens single sex spaces?

So if you joined a women’s group and a man who didn’t claim to be a woman joined because he wanted some women friends, you’d be ok with that?

Women aren’t there to provide support to TiMs.

There must be endless numbers of groups that accept TiMs considering the amount of posters on MN who say they are happy to share private spaces with them, so there should be no need for them to invade women only groups.

"So the way I look at life is I would accept them into the group as I'd understand they were trying to make female friends and wishing to hang out in that environment"

This would make them no different to the male person who the group rejected previously though.

Maybe, or maybe people might agree, or think about it a bit. Everyone already knows Bertha is a man, so I doubt there would be a chorus of ‘what do you mean? What other man? There are no men in this group!’
I think it’s worth raising as a discussion point, as devils advocate. It’s sticky though if you aren’t that bothered and want to stay in the group, but you have concerns about fairness and hypocrisy.
Yet again it feels like women can’t talk about what they want, men must approve, even in a women’s only group, you can’t talk about what you want.

If one man is let in, then its not on to not let another man in.

I'd leave and set up another group that is for adult females only.