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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

266 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/09/2025 20:38

Sir Ed Davey faces activist revolt over party rules that allow biological men to take women’s posts

The current rules allow those who “self-identify as women” to stand for party posts set aside for women, which the activists say dilutes the chance that biological women can reach the top of the party.

The vote will be put before conference on Saturday, but it is understood that trans rights activists will try to get it cancelled to avoid embarrassment. This is despite a YouGov poll showing that three-quarters of Lib Dem members do not support the party’s stance on allowing gender self-ID.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference/

Also at https://archive.is/hykSr

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
ArabellaSaurus · 21/09/2025 10:55

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 10:48

So they are very clear that the view of their party is in conflict with the law then.

Useful to get that clarity. For anyone who was thinking of legal action.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 10:48

fromorbit · 21/09/2025 06:28

Trainwreck interview on GB news

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’

Liberal Democrats in England Former Chair Lucas North says the Liberal Democrats have been ‘very clear’ that the view of the party is ‘trans-women are women’.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969441398479843674

Telegraph

Lib Dem conference descends into trans row
Pro-trans activists quash vote on biological men taking female roles within first hour of party conference
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/20/lib-dem-conference-trans-row-ed-davey-bournemouth/

So they are very clear that the view of their party is in conflict with the law then.

JustSpeculation · 21/09/2025 10:18

EdithStourton · 21/09/2025 07:55

Ditto. If they eat themselves, the only people I'm concerned about are some of thr hardworking local activists and the people they serve.

The paid wonks and the spineless leadership can do one. I left because they refused to answer a single one of my entirely reasonable questions about things like prisons, sports and safeguarding.

The lack of what used to be called moral fibre appalled me.

I'd already left over their refusal to support May's Brexit in name only. I thought it was utterly foolish and vainglorious to do this, as it would lead to a worse Brexit and Boris Johnson (it was blatantly obvious - I don't claim clairvoyancy). I regret this as it prevented me from flouncing over this later issue.

But for me the point is that the Libs and Lib Dems were primarily a party that stood for principles I believed in which the Tories and Labour didn't. A "non socialist party of the left" as they called themselves. I voted for them because of these principles as I saw the Tories as greedy, corrupt and incompetent and Labour as narrow, bureaucratic and authoritarian.

But the Lib Dems have now been revealed as politically immature and, well, just not very good. Which is a shame, as you said, as there are some excellent people in the party.

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 10:16

So I've now watched Zoe's speech and the speech of Lucas whatshisname, who basically said that Zoe's motion was bigotry. And he got much more applause and support than Zoe did. It's truly depressing, and despite having the law firmly on our side, it shows what a long, long way we have to go.

ArabellaSaurus · 21/09/2025 10:00

outofdate · 21/09/2025 08:03

Oh god I can’t believe I was considering rejoining..

I still am. But currently I'd be ashamed to be associated with them, because of the absolute hogwash they are coming out with.

Abhannmor · 21/09/2025 08:50

borntobequiet · 20/09/2025 10:45

That’s extraordinary. A mainstream political party doesn’t allow a vote to ensure it complies with the law of the land.
These people are idiots. I so hope the media picks this up and runs hard with it. Nick Wallis is probably interested.

Yes it is not a sustainable position. Back in the days when Labour supported trades unions , their MPs were constantly being asked if they would condemn law breaking by , eg , workers on picket lines. Even if the interview was about the middle east or the NHS or the price of a pint.

But is the media as keen to defend women's rights as it was to destroy the unions ?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/09/2025 08:38

fromorbit · 21/09/2025 06:28

Trainwreck interview on GB news

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’

Liberal Democrats in England Former Chair Lucas North says the Liberal Democrats have been ‘very clear’ that the view of the party is ‘trans-women are women’.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969441398479843674

Telegraph

Lib Dem conference descends into trans row
Pro-trans activists quash vote on biological men taking female roles within first hour of party conference
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/20/lib-dem-conference-trans-row-ed-davey-bournemouth/

The state of him 🙄

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/09/2025 08:37

borntobequiet · 21/09/2025 06:41

Quote from Zoe Hollowood in that article:

She added: “People laughed in the hall when I said free speech is under pressure - then they voted for no debate.

Idiots.

outofdate · 21/09/2025 08:03

Oh god I can’t believe I was considering rejoining..

EdithStourton · 21/09/2025 07:55

JustSpeculation · 17/09/2025 21:03

Yes, it will embarrass them in the eyes of the country. But not at the conference, which is the only thing that counts in their eyes. Like Trump, they like to win.

If you thought that I was a cynical, disillusioned ex Lib Demmer, you'd be right.

Ditto. If they eat themselves, the only people I'm concerned about are some of thr hardworking local activists and the people they serve.

The paid wonks and the spineless leadership can do one. I left because they refused to answer a single one of my entirely reasonable questions about things like prisons, sports and safeguarding.

The lack of what used to be called moral fibre appalled me.

borntobequiet · 21/09/2025 06:41

Quote from Zoe Hollowood in that article:

She added: “People laughed in the hall when I said free speech is under pressure - then they voted for no debate.

fromorbit · 21/09/2025 06:28

Trainwreck interview on GB news

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’

Liberal Democrats in England Former Chair Lucas North says the Liberal Democrats have been ‘very clear’ that the view of the party is ‘trans-women are women’.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969441398479843674

Telegraph

Lib Dem conference descends into trans row
Pro-trans activists quash vote on biological men taking female roles within first hour of party conference
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/20/lib-dem-conference-trans-row-ed-davey-bournemouth/

GB News (@GBNEWS) on X

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’ Liberal Democrats in England Former Chair Lucas North says the Liberal Democrats have been ‘very clear’ that the view of the party is ‘trans-women are women’.

https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969441398479843674

borntobequiet · 21/09/2025 06:28

So Tim Farron was entirely wrong in asserting that the Liberal Democrats wouldn’t vote for anything that didn’t uphold the law.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 05:27

IwantToRetire · 21/09/2025 01:23

Apparenlty the members did vote.

They voted not to have a vote!

Dr Zoe Hollowood, a member of campaign group Liberal Democrat Voice for Women, wanted a debate - and then a binding vote - on updating party policy in light of the Supreme Court ruling that a woman should be defined by biological sex.

But Lucas North, treasurer of LGBT+ Liberal Democrats, argued that the debate was a "sham" and urged conference-goers to "reject the idea that trans identities are up for debate".

The call was supported by two-to-one in a vote in the Bournemouth conference centre hall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0vvle9w7zo

So, trans identities are not up for debate, but female people are not even allowed to debate whether they exist or not?

And it is out of the question for Lib Dem policies to reflect the actual law?

What a shit show. So glad I wasn't coerced into voting for them.

SarahJane03 · 21/09/2025 02:03

DuesToTheDirt · 17/09/2025 21:20

Surely, with the Supreme Court ruling, the genderists don't have a leg to stand on?

Sadly these men will ignore women's protected rights no matter what. 😣

IwantToRetire · 21/09/2025 01:23

IwantToRetire · 20/09/2025 17:58

I cant quite believe that they would behave like that in public.

Like those Greens in Bristol.

But then they were obviously okay with blatantly supressing a vote.

You would have thought if they are so confident of what the policy should be, they would put it to the vote to have their trans priority affirmed by members.

But what they done implies they dont have the confidence they would win the vote.

Apparenlty the members did vote.

They voted not to have a vote!

Dr Zoe Hollowood, a member of campaign group Liberal Democrat Voice for Women, wanted a debate - and then a binding vote - on updating party policy in light of the Supreme Court ruling that a woman should be defined by biological sex.

But Lucas North, treasurer of LGBT+ Liberal Democrats, argued that the debate was a "sham" and urged conference-goers to "reject the idea that trans identities are up for debate".

The call was supported by two-to-one in a vote in the Bournemouth conference centre hall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0vvle9w7zo

Head and shoulders shot of Dr Zoe Hollowood speaking at Liberal Democrat conference. She has light brown, shoulder-length, curly hair worn loose. She's wearing a puff-sleeved dark orange jumper and stands behind a Lib Dem branded podium.

Lib Dems reject debate on blocking trans women from diversity quotas

Dr Zoe Hollowood wanted a debate to update policy on trans women being included in women's quotas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0vvle9w7zo

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 20/09/2025 20:39

Rightsraptor · 20/09/2025 18:10

I note that nobody ever reserves a certain number of places for men. But, as they're the default human, why would they?

I thought the libdems policy - if it is returned to being properly by sex of course, it’s meaningless otherwise - does reserve at least 40% for men, exactly the same as it does for women? Isn’t it meant to simply ensure that the ratio either way can’t be higher than 60:40?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 20/09/2025 18:37

I just saw their fearless leader on YouTube, he's saying he'll stop the boats, he's going all out to the win the men's vote from Reform, but doesn't give a damn about the women's vote obviously. 🤬

RoastOrMash · 20/09/2025 18:28

Anyone know if Zoe’s speech at conference was recorded and if so a link for it?
Would like to write to my Lib Dem MP about their unlawful policy and following the SC judgement
Thx

GallantKumquat · 20/09/2025 18:25

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2025 08:11

I actually feel for Tim Farron. He's almost certainly GC and thinks it's bollocks on a personal level. However he was targeted previously over his religious beliefs and he was effectively forced to set down as leader. Despite his own personal views maybe being different on a number of subjects he has always behaved like a liberal and encouraged debate and represented the line that has been built by consensus. He is in a bind to challenge (which I actually think he has privately).

Back story. Back in 2017 in the aftermath of the 2017 election, a faction of the LIb Dem took it upon themselves to oust him because of his Christian values and the fact he personally regarded homosexuality as sinful. If you look at his voting record and his conduct he certainly didn't reflect his own beliefs.

But I do believe there's more to the story and the bonkers LGBT+ Lib Dems had a witch hunt against him.

The MP announced his resignation as party leader on Wednesday, saying he had become “the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in”.

“The consequences of the focus on my faith is that I have found myself torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader”, he added.

His resignation came just hours after that of the party's openly gay Home Affairs spokesman, Lord Brian Paddick, citing "concerns about the leader's views on various issues".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tim-farron-resigns-liberal-democrat-gay-rights-lgbt-chris-cooke-tension-lord-paddick-a7796321.html

Now Brian Paddock is an interesting character at this point. He's openly gay and was being heavily influenced by the LGBT+ Lib Dems at the time.

Now the Radical Association were just getting to a point of significant influence at the time. They were effectively the LDs answer to Momentum and seen as 'the future of the party's and were heavily dominated by a clique - that largely centred on the LGBT+ LDs and their mates.

Hey look at this from the above article about Tim Farron

Former head of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats, Chris Cooke, made unsubstantiated complaints to the party about Farron's personal conduct when "drunk", and admitted that he "made up a story to cause trouble" following his suspension over Twitter comments directed at Conservative MP Anna Soubry.

The student nurse tweeted that the Broxtowe MP he hoped she would not “escape the noose” over her expenses claims after it was revealed she was one of several Conservative MPs embroiled in the scandal over the party’s expense claims during the 2015 election

She screen-grabbed the tweet and her local constituency party complained to the local Lib Dems.

He later tweeted his Twitter account and friends said he had not meant to threaten her – he was just expressing a hope she would be arrested or lose her seat.

Mr Cooke, from Bramcote in Nottingham, admitted that he had sent an email to party bosses with a complaint about Mr Farron's personal conduct while “drunk” and has since retracted.

He told the Mail on Sunday: “I felt betrayed by the party and was drunk at the time.

“It is an email I regretted sending and have retracted.

“I was just p*ed off with my suspension over a non-issue and made up a story to cause trouble.”

The contents of the complaint have not been revealed but senior Lib Dems told the Mail that, although they knew them to be untrue, it compounded their alarm about Mr Farron’s inability to breakthrough during the election campaign which they blamed on the ongoing row over his religion.

Hmmm. Doesnt this all hit a bit of a nerve, when repeated back in September 2025 and the context of certain vexatious TRAs and rising concerns about the rhetoric of killing politicians?

AND

“Many people thought Farron was not only a liability in terms of his anti-gay views but not liberal or Left-wing enough”, he said. “‘There was a section of the party that were simply out to get him."

By any means necessary. It was a witch-hunt.

Let's go back to Paddick.

Paddick, a former Police officer at the MET, subsequently got heavily involved early on with the row over GC voices in the party and bullying in the party which was going on at the end of 2017/ start of 2018. He was very much involved at the time of Natalie Bird's election as co-chair of the Radical Association and subsequent treatment within the party. He apparently tried to smooth things over between 'both sides' but I don't actually believe much of this. He was far too heavily sat on and influenced by the LGBT+ Lid Dems in the end. My feeling was he was a useful idiot for TRAs because he could be manipulated by the whole 'its just like being gay' stuff and trying to be down with the kids he didn't ask the right questions at the right time.

I must admit to thinking, I wonder what he thinks of everything now in the context of all the subsequent developments. He left the LDs in 2023 to take on a non partisan roll but still sits in the Lords.

This is basically all about the Radical Association and the LGBT+ Lib Dems who at the time were all mates and all pretty much full on TRA and their dominance in the party and the degree of influence they had. At the time members of the LGBT+ LD pretty much had members on most of the LD federal groups which manage the party. These were almost all men and those who weren't were trans / non-binary (one notable exception to this). It always struck me, that they were the people with the most time on their hands to volunteer to the party - women with children just didn't have a chance. They had a strangle hold on it. Farron, ironically, was pointing out at the time that the LDs had a 'stale, pale and male' problem. Which this absolutely echoed.

I don't believe Farron was targeted purely because of his views on homosexuality. It was just easier to openly oust him on this basis rather than on the wider TWAW thing. In hindsight, he probably wasn't MRA enough either. He just wasn't authoritarian enough for them, they couldn't control him as he wasn't 'one of theirs' and he was seen as an issue precisely because he was liberal and tried to enable debate within the party. It wasn't just how he came across in 2017 to the electorate. The LD were always going to get squeezed out because of the dynamics of that particular election and them making themselves a single issue party who were looking increasingly detached from the electorate and increasing inflexible and undemocratic.

It's interesting that Natalie Bird's harassment came not long after Farron's departure and just as we entered the height of no debate. There were many LDs who believed in leaving the EU or thought that the LDs were becoming too 'liberal identity' - you all must believe the tick box of right think - who left the party at that time after a massive upsurge in members in the immediate aftermath of Brexit.

So if you understand this, you understand perhaps why Farron has towed the line. If I'm honest, I'm surprised he ever stayed in the party after the way he was treated. Most others would have walked in his shoes.

I am more forgiving of him than most I think as a result, because I think he's already been a victim of the anti liberal bullshit in the party and was actively targeted by the LGBT+ Lib Dems, including at least one who actively told straight up lies about him to cause shit. And admitted to it.

Sadly, there's no rule in politics that you get to spout bollocks on a topic and move on. It usually works that way because it's boring to press a topic on a technicality. But Morgan detected comedy gold and wouldn't relent.

Rightsraptor · 20/09/2025 18:10

hallouminatus · 20/09/2025 16:27

what he came up with in the end seemed sensible
What he came up with at the end of the interview was the idea that committees could have a certain number of places reserved for women, and also a certain number of places reserved for people who identify as trans. I wonder what proportion of a committee's membership would it seem sensible and proportionate to reserve for each of those categories. I suspect he's not given it much thought.

I note that nobody ever reserves a certain number of places for men. But, as they're the default human, why would they?

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 20/09/2025 18:06

Why they think they have a place in politics when they just remove themselves from debates they find ideologically difficult, is beyond me.

This isnt that difficult in the grand scheme of things.

I admire Zoe for persisting.

IwantToRetire · 20/09/2025 17:58

borntobequiet · 20/09/2025 12:28

The optics are so bad - it’s amazing they don’t realise this. Or perhaps not so amazing…

I cant quite believe that they would behave like that in public.

Like those Greens in Bristol.

But then they were obviously okay with blatantly supressing a vote.

You would have thought if they are so confident of what the policy should be, they would put it to the vote to have their trans priority affirmed by members.

But what they done implies they dont have the confidence they would win the vote.

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 20/09/2025 17:52

I'm appalled at this, what we need is a law that says that elected officials cannot walk out of the room just because they don't like what's been discussed. Although considering this party isn't paying attention to the law as far as the Equality Act is concerned I don't suppose they'd pay attention to that one either. 🤬

Alwaysoneoddsock · 20/09/2025 17:01

If I believe in women’s rights - who do I vote for?