Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

I was worrying about this recently too as there have been a few news stories where they've made statistical errors; one example being that they were using data from companies who self reported only salaries for women, resulting in us not realising the pay gap was underestimated for two decades https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/25/uk-gender-pay-gap-underestimated-for-two-decades-report-says

And https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/21/troubled-uk-statistics-agency-warns-of-errors-in-its-growth-figures

I think we are going to have to be very careful that this mistakes don't spiral into mistrust of these organisations (I'm already wondering what else they've affected - things we've long suspected aren't working because they don't have adequate resources), or design some further oversight team or something.

I think what you say about the current mood on rural communities is important especially because the Lib Dems have been the traditional alternative to the Tories in lots of country places. Labour have never stood a chance of winning in these constituencies.
I am very worried that Reform will simply hoover up a lot of these voters who feel a massive disconnect with the Tories (and Labour) and see gender woo overcoming the Lib Dems.

It is difficult to know what the true figures are - the ones quoted above are from the ONS, so hopefully well informed.

Equally, I'm not sure what other source could be used to corroborate

I wasn't doubting your figures.

I was pointing out that we no longer live in a world where "official" sources are accepted for being that.

We live in a world of alternative facts, ie facts that suit what we think.

So the Trump can say that panadol use in pregnancy causes autism, and why there has been an increase in it, because the Amish have no autism and they dont use modern medicine.

We also cant have a sensible discussion about it as most people pick and just the facile media for the "truth" that suits their existing views.

I think what you say about the current mood on rural communities is important especially because the Lib Dems have been the traditional alternative to the Tories in lots of country places. Labour have never stood a chance of winning in these constituencies.
I am very worried that Reform will simply hoover up a lot of these voters who feel a massive disconnect with the Tories (and Labour) and see gender woo overcoming the Lib Dems.

I think midwits come from any social class, but the MC have the confidence to make more noise.

Picking up on what your DH found...
I have lived most of my life in the same fairly rural area. I'm very involved in local life and I know a lot of people from a wide range of backgrounds. I'm also on several countryside pages on FB.

And people are pissed off. They try to obey the law (other than speed restrictions, and the odd bit of planning...) and they look at the failure to control blatant illegal immigration with utter bewilderment. They make a connection with rising population (largely fuelled by immigration) and the housing shortage, hence their kids not being able to buy a place and move out, and hence the sheer number of families living in static caravans while building a house in what was their parents' large side garden (surprisingly common down the back lanes where I live). Most of them have no issue with individual immigrants - the bloke who runs the takeaway in the former village pub and has a lock-in on a Tuesday night is everybody's mate. They have an issue with illegality, and the sheer unmanageable scale of the current inflow of people.

They are feeling squeezed, too, by years of being undercut in their trades by Pawel from Poland. Pawel, even if he has a wife and kids, is still willing to live in cramped accommodation and save like buggery for a few years, because when he moves back to Poland, the £££ he (and his wife) has saved will buy him (them) an actual house more or less outright in his home village. Whereas if they live in the same circumstances (and often do), they might make it to a small 3-bed with a tiny garden and a massive mortgage. Meanwhile Pawel, mortgage free, is planting his orchard - and they're FB friends with their old mate Pawel, and see what he's doing.

They also see their country changing around them in ways they did not vote for and which were never brought up for discussion in the public sphere. Rural people are VERY pissed off with the rate of development in the countryside - I have had so many conversations in which we all mourn the loss of good arable land to housing, road building, electricity sub-stations, industrial units and the like.

There is a feeling of powerlessness and complete disconnection from the political process. And I genuinely worry that if our (smug, remote, up itself) political class doesn't clue on bloody fast, shit will go down. When, where or how I don't know, but it won't be pretty.

And these are not bad people. They are pissed off-people. Pissed off because wages have been held down, because their kids can't afford decent accommodation, because a fucking massive housing estate is being glued onto the edge of their village so the school is now overcrowded...

Where do we go from here?

Wendy Chamberlain was also asked this on the Nicky Campbell show on 5 Live today, and she talked shite then too.

It is a gotcha question, but journalists are going to keep asking politicians this because they make themselves look like idiots every time.

It’s only a gotcha question if you’re an idiot or a coward. If you’re a normal person it’s completely straightforward.

Wendy Chamberlain was also asked this on the Nicky Campbell show on 5 Live today, and she talked shite then too.

It is a gotcha question, but journalists are going to keep asking politicians this because they make themselves look like idiots every time.

It has happened AGAIN! Another Lib Dem MP looking absurd. This is going to keep happening as long as the Lib Dems are keen to keep looking dumb.

GB NEWS
'I’m not going to give you a straight answer on that.' Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain [Chief whip] refuses to say whether a woman can have a penis, calling it 'a bit of a gotcha' question. Pressed on the Supreme Court ruling, she says: 'I respect the ruling'
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969693080803545296

The thing is as well due to GB news increased ratings they can't avoid going on. Sooner or later the other channels will join in.

Are midwits more likely to be middle class? (Looks at the LD conference)

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

Just bloody wave it because you want to rather than these ridiculous fake shows or patriotism. It was still like they were utterly embarrassed to have the flag. It felt awkward and staged.

But at least it seemed better than the ever increasing ridiculousness of the last night of the proms with those god awful EU berets which have become the political statement and statement of upper middle class snobbery. I found it slightly amusing because it was the same day as the march in London and it was a mix of people who were wanting to wave the UK flag, but probably were heading into London with it well hidden so they weren't mistaken as the wrong sort. And the beret wears who I feel are probably my red line in terms of free speech and should be criminalised for crimes against fashion. I'm pro EU and like I say, like the proms but can't bare this hideous smug twattiness and it has the effect of momentarily making me want to say "I'd rather have a pint with Nig".

And this is really the problem for me. All this reclaiming stuff, is hilarious because it's been entrenched in this sense of snobbery and yet more virtue signalling. It's fake and insufferable.

It comes back to the concept of the Lanyard Class.

DH has been saying for a few weeks, "for most of the flag wavers, it's about everything turning to shit and not having much to look forward to rather than racism. If you gave them an extra bank holiday and some flags to wave most of it would disappear overnight".

I thought he was talking bollocks when he first said it but I'm definitely coming around to the idea rapidly.

It's not a culture war, it's a class war.

Weirdly he ended up having a drunken conversation with a few guys last night about it. They said they wanted a local pub again. They said they just wanted something to be proud of. That's it. It's a feeling that everything has run down and there's nothing left (which feeds into this sense of disillusionment and almost 'Make Britain Great Again'). That owes a lot more to economics and these middle class waving sessions claiming it to be racist are somewhat missing the economic story here because, well luxury beliefs and attitudes because they are sheltered from it.

Weirdly this year has been the first where we haven't done really well in the football or had a royal occasion to wave flags too at so I wonder if there's something in it.

I can't help but feel the LDs attempt to 'reclaim the flag' really misses the mark on so many levels.

Out of touch, hypocritical, fake, snobby and smug superiority where they know best so are above listening to the 'other side', because they are on the right side.

Just fuck off.

(And lord knows if I'm saying this, then it's going down even worse in other quarters).

Are midwits more likely to be middle class? (Looks at the LD conference)

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

Just bloody wave it because you want to rather than these ridiculous fake shows or patriotism. It was still like they were utterly embarrassed to have the flag. It felt awkward and staged.

But at least it seemed better than the ever increasing ridiculousness of the last night of the proms with those god awful EU berets which have become the political statement and statement of upper middle class snobbery. I found it slightly amusing because it was the same day as the march in London and it was a mix of people who were wanting to wave the UK flag, but probably were heading into London with it well hidden so they weren't mistaken as the wrong sort. And the beret wears who I feel are probably my red line in terms of free speech and should be criminalised for crimes against fashion. I'm pro EU and like I say, like the proms but can't bare this hideous smug twattiness and it has the effect of momentarily making me want to say "I'd rather have a pint with Nig".

And this is really the problem for me. All this reclaiming stuff, is hilarious because it's been entrenched in this sense of snobbery and yet more virtue signalling. It's fake and insufferable.

It comes back to the concept of the Lanyard Class.

DH has been saying for a few weeks, "for most of the flag wavers, it's about everything turning to shit and not having much to look forward to rather than racism. If you gave them an extra bank holiday and some flags to wave most of it would disappear overnight".

I thought he was talking bollocks when he first said it but I'm definitely coming around to the idea rapidly.

It's not a culture war, it's a class war.

Weirdly he ended up having a drunken conversation with a few guys last night about it. They said they wanted a local pub again. They said they just wanted something to be proud of. That's it. It's a feeling that everything has run down and there's nothing left (which feeds into this sense of disillusionment and almost 'Make Britain Great Again'). That owes a lot more to economics and these middle class waving sessions claiming it to be racist are somewhat missing the economic story here because, well luxury beliefs and attitudes because they are sheltered from it.

Weirdly this year has been the first where we haven't done really well in the football or had a royal occasion to wave flags too at so I wonder if there's something in it.

I can't help but feel the LDs attempt to 'reclaim the flag' really misses the mark on so many levels.

Out of touch, hypocritical, fake, snobby and smug superiority where they know best so are above listening to the 'other side', because they are on the right side.

Just fuck off.

(And lord knows if I'm saying this, then it's going down even worse in other quarters).