Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

The thing is with Farage, he comes over as caring for that sector of the population which the mainstream parties ignore, mock or criticise. Imply that people who are likely to vote for him are racist, homophobic etc and a lot of them will be furious - because they really like the Asian bloke who runs the takeaway in the ex-pub, and the treasurer of the bowls club where they have played for years is gay and no one cares.

And the fact that the Brexit vote taught lot of politicians precisely nothing about the people who voted for it makes that section of the electorate want to stick it back in even harder next time.

And to pick up what @ArabellaSaurus said, 'Under educated if the emphasis is on academic achievement.' Well, precisely. Practical skills, an understanding of the landscape, common sense around animals: including an understanding of sex differences, which makes them particularly stony ground for the trans woo.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Farage, but he is one hell of a political operator. Having seen Kier Starmer in the flesh (stiff, well-modulated, well-rehearsed) I can see why Farage does so well with the man-of-the-people schtick.

Exactly! There is no point arguing with them because they don't listen.
You can observe but really these are the party loyalty bunch who used to always unthinkingly vote Tory. Pandering to them is dangerous and unlikely to work.

I think Davey is doing all he can and is genuinely scared that Trump is pushing into UK via Farage, as many of us are. The BBC seem to have only just enabled them a voice which is why he has had to mention Farage so many times but their policies are finally being reported on. I've seen more of theirs in the MSM this year than any year I remember since Ed took over. I think their policies seem further left than Labour. They've considered social care which is more realistic to help NHS.

Glad the women have a corner there but I do suspect that they'll be hacked by the trans activist group and details of members leaked, which ironically I can imaging putting a lot of people off openly signing up.

Another defining characteristic of those voting for Reform UK Party Limited is that there are 50% more males than females so in fact not at all reflective of the UK population.

The ‘not being lied to’ is the bit I don’t get about support for Farage…he keeps on saying things that aren’t true! He keeps on making splashy claims about what he’ll do, which very shortly after turn out to be unworkable or gross exaggerations. Lying or incompetence?
We’ve already had the ‘stick it in the eye’ Brexit vote which made just about everything people complain about worse not better. Of course Farage can’t be held accountable for that because he buggered off and didn’t do anything to try to help sort out the inevitable messes so he can blame it on May and Johnson.

Regardless of what people here think, the political parties believe reform are popular with the electrate, and they are the ones talking to the 'undereducated' on the door.

Labour dont want their voters moving towards reform. So i think labour will take on more Reform type policies and ditch the woker ones, and let LD and greens concentrate on them.

I think LD are betting that the next election is going to be close, and either reform (with or without conservates) or labour/LD/green/SNP coalition. So it makes sense for LD to claim their main opposition is reform and let the electorate know what their conditions for the coalition would be. And at the same time attract labour voters who want the woker policies.

Farage is offering a concept of the future. The LD only offer an anti Farage idea. They are not controlling the narrative. Farage is. They are not representing a centrist alternative which is what many of the public want. They are further polarising British politics, which works more for Farage due to numbers and the disaffection vote.

John Curtis has already observed that this strategy is unlikely to pick up more votes - they have already hoovered much of the pro-Europe soft Tory vote. He thinks they need to offer more leftist economical interesting policies to the public to pick up more votes.

I think I'm in this boat tbh. As it stands I find the whole 'we are so anti Farage' stuff off putting rather than encouraging me to vote and I'm looking for an alternative positive'change' option for the future which isn't batshit and doesn't involve regressive policies and lies (like men magically transforming into women). I am pro-free speech so they just fucked that one good and proper too.

As a rule I've always been a pretty good bell weather in terms of voting and knowing how the vote will ultimately go. If I'm saying, this isn't hitting the mark there's a good chance they've screwed the pooch.

I'm unimpressed at the lazy, click bait attempt at getting attention by just saying Farage a hundred times. It's bullshit.

https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/from-protest-to-power-inside-reform-uk-s-changing-support-base/

(No uni) education, media preference, and immigration are the three key features of Reform leaning voters.

Otherwise, they are reflective of the average UK population.

'They're not stupid. Under-educated, possibly, but in many ways astute and sensible. They might well consider Farage a grifter and an idiot, and still vote for him to stick one in the eye of the know-alls who have ignored them these last 30 years.'

Yes. Under educated if the emphasis is on academic achievement.

But I also think Reform vote is cutting through all sections of society, who are just tired of being lied to. And there is no more obvious lie than that transwomen are women.

I'll see if I can find some polling, be interesting to see.

Those pesky women are going to win sooner or later.

Liberal Voice for Women

LDConf and it's a wrap!

A brilliant weekend full of sisterhood and camaraderie, standing up for liberal ideals of equality and women's human rights.

Thanks to everyone - including our opponents - who contributed to making this such a successful conference for us.

Every attempt to hold us back makes us more determined. Every attempt to silence us alerts more people to the need for our work.

We are a growing movement. Become a part of it here:
^https://liberalvoiceforwomen.org/^

Join — Liberal Voice for Women

See you in York for Spring Conference 2026!

They're not stupid. Under-educated, possibly, but in many ways astute and sensible. They might well consider Farage a grifter and an idiot, and still vote for him to stick one in the eye of the know-alls who have ignored them these last 30 years.

It's not so much that Farage will win. It's that the mainstream parties will lose.

Agreed that is how I basically look at it. There is NO way to win these voters back by insulting them.

Brexit it hasn't worked out economically as many predicted. However it totally worked politically. It happened Brexit voters won and there is little prospect of us returning. The fact that Leave voters crushed it last time and changed the political landscape means it is very wise politically to take account of what they think. Because every citizen in the UK gets to use their vote.

Even the Lib Dems are doing this to some degree as I pointed out earlier in the thread they are now wave a bunch of flags which again is catering to ordinary Brits but is very daring from their perspective, they are not willing to say if you go vote for us we will take you back into the EU via a referendum. They don't even have the basic courage of the Brexit party. Instead they are aiming to win disillusioned Tories and those scared of Farage. Moreover to get back to the centre point of this thread the Lib Dems continue to be happy to imply women don't exist because that is what "nice" people think.

On a basic level that is way stupider than leaving the EU.

I'd agree.

We're talking a tranche of the voting population that has been looked down on and despised by the political class since Gordon Brown made his comment about 'horrible racist woman' (or whatever it was he said) in the back of the car when his mink hadn't been turned off. The woman, iirc, had asked a reasonable question.

They're used to being thought stupid. And - newsflash - they are very capable of despising their 'betters' and thinking them stupid too. I was putting up a gazebo once with a builder and a gamekeeper/general labourer/ village handyman (the sort of bloke you phone when a tree has come down and trapped your horse in its stable, because he will have both a chainsaw and the capacity to reassure the horse). I was quietly doing what I was told, and they were comparing notes about some super-educated highly-paid office workers who had once totally and utterly mangled the putting up of said gazebo 'Coz they int got no common sense, they don't do nothing with their hands'.

I have no idea how either of them votes - the gamekeeper loathed the local Tory MP - but anyone who decries them for being uninformed, irrational and stupid is asking to be quietly looked at, and then they'll just walk off, 'I din't say nuthen to the stupid bastard, he int worth moi toime...'

These are the sort of blokes who will be able to handle the end of civilisation. They know it. The political class (whatever that is) doesn't.

They're not stupid. Under-educated, possibly, but in many ways astute and sensible. They might well consider Farage a grifter and an idiot, and still vote for him to stick one in the eye of the know-alls who have ignored them these last 30 years.

It's not so much that Farage will win. It's that the mainstream parties will lose.

I'm sure. Doesn't make it right.
I'd rather read last year's paper than argue with a pigeon.

They hear what they want to so it is literally pointless listening when it's in essence mumbo-jumbo.

Mmmhmm. You do realise that’s exactly what Reform voters say about Labour, Conservative and the LibDrms?

Listening to them doesn't even mean what they say is real though.
Brexiteers thought that Farmers would be fine, they believed the bus, they bought into what Farage was selling. It didn't come to fruition and they still believe him! There's no reasoning with people who don't have the same goal posts for all parties. They'd happily go on about LD and the tuition fee, Tony Blair and Iraq and Tories and...well they usually vote for them, but they won't think Farage and lies on a bus or tax evasion or handgun law changes. They hear what they want to so it is literally pointless listening when it's in essence mumbo-jumbo.

Why aren't they engaging with those who have a different opinion.

They have. No one listened. Go to any “left-behind” area (eg many coastal towns in East Lincolnshire or Cumbria for example) and hear the voters say they have listened to the promises of both Labour and conservatives and neither party has done anything meaningful for them for decades. They feel that have absolutely nothing to lose and possibly something to gain by voting for Reform, because Farage isn’t politically correct and “says it straight”.

Listening to these people doesn’t mean you have to agree with them, but as their votes count just as much as yours or mine surely they deserve the basic courtesy of hearing why they vote the way they do if the question is asked?

Farage has been mocked and maligned in MSM for decades now. It only makes him more popular amongst his supporters. (See also: Trump). His party is getting lots of votes, therefore the press has to take him seriously. I would argue they should be taking him more seriously than they currently are, properly pulling apart all his policy statements to show just how unworkable they are.

The problem with using language such as “engaging brains”, “rational”, “daft” is that it is not actually engaging with the people who are disenfranchised and disillusioned with mainstream politics, especially those described so well by Edith. And in many situations it is counter-productive to effectively call someone ill informed and stupid if you’re trying to persuade someone to your point of view.

I disagree.

For one, lots of people don't trust the MSM, not least reform voters. I don't believe that pointing out that best case is that he has honest intentions but is an incompetent grifter and puppet for Trump would have any impact.

As someone who has never voted to a party for the right of the Lib Dems, and more often voted labour, I can certainly see that there are a lot of people out there like me.

Not impressed with labour at all, not least their failure to be even vaguely centre left in economic terms, their hatred of free speech and their TQ+ / woke elements which have far too much power.

Tories - useless by their own standards, and I don't like their standards.

Lib Dem, greens - Total woke / TQ+ nonsense.

As someone who is left wing my choice is really "vote Reform because at least they seem to be quite anti TQ+ / woke, and they might actually try to do a tiny bit to address excessive immigration and islamism" or "don't vote because they are all totally appalling".

Also, in terms of population / economic growth. On the one hand you are right, we need immigration to boost the economy and do jobs we need doing. On the other hand it is blatantly completely unsustainable and anti- what the British population want to continue with the pyramid scheme we currently have, whereby government debt rises, productivity stagnates, and we have to increase the population to pay the increasing debt and look after the elderly (just like in 50 years the same thing will still be happening). People - even if they can;t express it clearly - understand that this is an issue.

100% spot on

"There aren't many things guaranteed in life. But if the BBC is interviewing a Lib Dem member called 'Rebecca', who's wearing an 'Elect More Women' t-shirt, the chances that he's a man is 100%"

Watch the clip from Politics Live, it'll give you a laugh if nothing else.

x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1970463459335926057

There was a motion that I wasn't part of to move on to next business but, given we debated these very issues just a few months ago, I think it's quite reasonable to say we're the only party engaging with these issues."

Ed Davey from the BBC report posted by @somethingnewandexciting

Are the LDs really engaging with these issues? I don’t remember a debate from the LDs - was he referring to a court case?

You’d think that if they actually were engaging with the issues they would have updated their policies to be lawful and not voted down discussion about but but what do I know?

This ties in with my experience too - I’m a bit more urban but spend a lot of time rurally. There’s huge swathes of the country that are going to vote for Reform at the next general election and the mainstream parties are utterly clueless as to why and/or what to do about it.

I think the only way Reform won’t win the GE is if the mainstream parties collaborate in key constituencies and run a single, centrist ABF (anyone but Farage) candidate in opposition to Reform. But Farage is steaming ahead and every now and then will come up with something that even I (old fashioned socialist leftie) will admit he has a point. Of course, this shows his total absence of core values outside anti-immigration, and his willingness to support any popular policy that will get him the vote.

I don’t know whether to be more concerned about the actual policies or the total lack of any credibility of Reform politicians outside Tice and Jenkins - both of whom represent rural areas perfectly described by Edith. We’ve only got to look at the USA to see the chaos that a populist AND incompetent government can cause.