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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

266 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/09/2025 20:38

Sir Ed Davey faces activist revolt over party rules that allow biological men to take women’s posts

The current rules allow those who “self-identify as women” to stand for party posts set aside for women, which the activists say dilutes the chance that biological women can reach the top of the party.

The vote will be put before conference on Saturday, but it is understood that trans rights activists will try to get it cancelled to avoid embarrassment. This is despite a YouGov poll showing that three-quarters of Lib Dem members do not support the party’s stance on allowing gender self-ID.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference/

Also at https://archive.is/hykSr

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 14:30

@SlackJawedDisbeliefXY we have several of those builds here too. First sign is the stink of sewage on a local dog walk where they've not invested in sewage infrastructure so now it gets to the verge of overflowing in an AONB.
There's also one notorious developer who builds on flood plains here. Frequently trying to con local schools out of their older historical buildings and put them in said flood plains, trying to rip off the hospital under the guise of building specialist units (very cheaply of course) so he can take over land nearby... These people should be arrested, honestly. They damage community and land irreparably and it's always the councils and general public footing the bill for their greed.

somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 14:21

LeftieRightsHoarder · 25/09/2025 09:46

I have to laugh, even though it’s such a serious matter. Just ludicrous. I could almost think the whole thing was a massive practical joke carried out to reveal who were the biggest arse-lickers in the world.

Just catching up after being out all morning. Love the Big Lie post, thank you.
I also think the lazy aspect is combined with the multiple strands. Human brain loves patterns and when we suspect there is a lie somewhere we try to patch it in with our beliefs, self selection bias can tie a lot together but some bits don't fit, annoyingly, into our beliefs. When that happens I think it's easier to drop all the threads and just go with the majority thought process rather than see it to the end. This is the other side of the lies, there are so many it is impossible to align them all to left or right or whichever box you feel is fuelling the lie (food companies link to big pharma, greenwashing of so many companies to look environmentally friendly etc). The Lie now also works through complexity of layering and conglomorates working together to obstifrucate the truth for profit. AI might be able to unpick it if it were fed the right data, but no data is 'pure' any more and no one knows what the "right data" is anyway.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 25/09/2025 14:12

EdithStourton · 25/09/2025 12:19

@IwantToRetire
It is about a sense of victim hood about things being done to them to people who voted for it.
The thing is, people are getting what they DIDN'T vote for- because discussion wasn't allowed in public or polite society.
Very high immigration: the British public has consistently said that they want to see immigration brought down. It's gone up.
TWAW: once people understand what this means, they don't want it. It was foisted on us for years with shrieks of 'NO DEBATE!'

Plus, us yokels sit around in the countryside and discuss food security. We consider governments that wail about 'the nature emergency' and 'access to nature' while permitting a housing estate to be built on a flood plain (formerly water meadow), tearing up woodland to construct 'a garden community', and informing a local farmer that virtually all his land is going to be taken for a 'green energy' substation. We are a tiny voter base, so there is no chance that anyone 'important' is going to listen.

I used to be quite active politically. I have essentially given up. I despise almost all politicians, I think they are foolish, short-term, and treat us like idiots. I can't get involved, because there is no party that I agree with enough to give it my support.

... while permitting a housing estate to be built on a flood plain (formerly water meadow)

I have seen three or four schemes like this in recent years.

In one, the parish council were asked by local government to approach local landowners for sites. The parish council 'did the right thing' and a 10 acre field was proposed with decent road frontage but with half the site subject to frequent flooding. The expectation was that perhaps 25 or 30 houses would be built along the dry roadside with the rest of the site left as flood plain.

The council gave permission for 180 houses across the entire site

The risk of flooding for those built on the actual flood plain was 'mitigated' by building them on raised concrete platforms with steps up to the front doors.

The foul drains for these properties were not built up above the floodplain and so are inundated with water whenever the river floods. This leads to raw sewage gushing out of the manhole covers around the rest of the village during flooding. Nothing like the sight of a cascade of turds, toilet paper and tampons outside the village CoOp to put you off your breakfast. To try to prevent this, during flooding, the council lays on a continuous chain of sucklifts that draw the sewage out of the pumping station and drive off to dump it somewhere else.

The further risk of storm water from the development increasing flooding was mitigated by adding an attenuation pond (that doubled as a 'nature reserve') The attenuation pond itself is within the 30 year flood plain and so provides zero attenuation in times of high flooding.

All because central government decided to set top down requirements for new housing builds and adjust the planning requirements leaving local government no way of controlling what actually gets built.

PollyNomial · 25/09/2025 13:46

Merrymouse · 25/09/2025 13:31

So why are so many so keen to support large scale immigration and call everyone against it uneducated, lazy, easily lead?

I don't think most people are keen on supporting large scale immigration.

The problem is that large parts of our economy depend on people working for lower wages than people born in this country tolerate, either here or abroad.

Everyone who voted for brexit was, even if they were told the opposite.

Merrymouse · 25/09/2025 13:31

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 25/09/2025 13:19

Arguably, brexit happened because people wanted an end to high immigration and were sick of being told that 'x couldnt happen/ y has to happen because of the EU'.

The remain campaign may have been fought on logically arguments, but given it didnt persuade enough people that the above was a small price to pay, it failed.

People voted for Boris, in part, to get brexit done and have a points based immigration system. Then we had the boris wave.

Once elected, Labour claim to be able to put an end to 'irregular' immigration by a one in one out policy.

A large part of the electrate have consistently voted against mass immigration, being ignored and seen their living standards fall.

We can argue that immigration doesnt lead to falling living standards, failing services and house ownership being out of reach, but we've demonstrated that mass immigration doesnt lead to increase living standards, either.

So why are so many so keen to support large scale immigration and call everyone against it uneducated, lazy, easily lead?

So why are so many so keen to support large scale immigration and call everyone against it uneducated, lazy, easily lead?

I don't think most people are keen on supporting large scale immigration.

The problem is that large parts of our economy depend on people working for lower wages than people born in this country tolerate, either here or abroad.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 25/09/2025 13:19

Arguably, brexit happened because people wanted an end to high immigration and were sick of being told that 'x couldnt happen/ y has to happen because of the EU'.

The remain campaign may have been fought on logically arguments, but given it didnt persuade enough people that the above was a small price to pay, it failed.

People voted for Boris, in part, to get brexit done and have a points based immigration system. Then we had the boris wave.

Once elected, Labour claim to be able to put an end to 'irregular' immigration by a one in one out policy.

A large part of the electrate have consistently voted against mass immigration, being ignored and seen their living standards fall.

We can argue that immigration doesnt lead to falling living standards, failing services and house ownership being out of reach, but we've demonstrated that mass immigration doesnt lead to increase living standards, either.

So why are so many so keen to support large scale immigration and call everyone against it uneducated, lazy, easily lead?

EdithStourton · 25/09/2025 12:19

@IwantToRetire
It is about a sense of victim hood about things being done to them to people who voted for it.
The thing is, people are getting what they DIDN'T vote for- because discussion wasn't allowed in public or polite society.
Very high immigration: the British public has consistently said that they want to see immigration brought down. It's gone up.
TWAW: once people understand what this means, they don't want it. It was foisted on us for years with shrieks of 'NO DEBATE!'

Plus, us yokels sit around in the countryside and discuss food security. We consider governments that wail about 'the nature emergency' and 'access to nature' while permitting a housing estate to be built on a flood plain (formerly water meadow), tearing up woodland to construct 'a garden community', and informing a local farmer that virtually all his land is going to be taken for a 'green energy' substation. We are a tiny voter base, so there is no chance that anyone 'important' is going to listen.

I used to be quite active politically. I have essentially given up. I despise almost all politicians, I think they are foolish, short-term, and treat us like idiots. I can't get involved, because there is no party that I agree with enough to give it my support.

lcakethereforeIam · 25/09/2025 11:52

Don't/can't think about it and get to 'be kind' while not doing it.

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2025 11:21

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/09/2025 10:49

To add to @RedToothBrush’s excellent explanations:

People don’t choose the “lazy” way because they are “lazy” in the value judgement way that the word is normally currently used. They choose it because that is how the human body/brain works - it works on the principle of “least effort.” You see it in every aspect of human behaviour, from low level acoustics in speech, to walking gait, to high level intellectual activity. Humans (and probably all animals, and nature in general) by default end up using the least effortful option that gets the maximal desired effect. If you think in evolutionary terms, this makes sense.

Path of least resistance, not got time, waste of limited resources etc

All phrases that could be used as part of this concept of 'lazy'.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/09/2025 10:49

To add to @RedToothBrush’s excellent explanations:

People don’t choose the “lazy” way because they are “lazy” in the value judgement way that the word is normally currently used. They choose it because that is how the human body/brain works - it works on the principle of “least effort.” You see it in every aspect of human behaviour, from low level acoustics in speech, to walking gait, to high level intellectual activity. Humans (and probably all animals, and nature in general) by default end up using the least effortful option that gets the maximal desired effect. If you think in evolutionary terms, this makes sense.

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2025 10:39

https://www.salon.com/2022/02/03/the-psychological-reason-that-so-many-fall-for-the-big-lie/

This article neatly explains why the LD strategy of repeating Farage and playing to his narrative rather than constructing a different one, is not a smart strategy as it actually reinforces the Big Lie because it repeats it. Psychologically it feeds the legitimacy of a Big Lie.

The Big Lie strategy in part relies on the absence of other narratives.

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2025 10:32

Warning.

I am about to do a JKRowling and quote Hitler and Goebbels for the purposes of understanding why politicians tell obvious and deliberate huge lies.

It is an important propaganda technique which is well known and well understood. We know that Farage is well versed in understanding this due to his education and his understandings on the subject.

This is what wiki briefly describes the Big Lie as:

Big lie
The repeated articulation of a complex of events that justify subsequent action. The descriptions of these events have elements of truth, and the "big lie" generalizations merge and eventually supplant the public's accurate perception of the underlying events. After World War I the German stab in the back explanation of the cause of their defeat became a justification for Nazi re-militarization and revanchism.

Goebbells explicitly used the phrase and described it as such:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

  • Joseph Goebbels

Goebbels was actually talking about Churchill and his use of propaganda and didn't admit to telling lies but he clearly understood the concept and its use in war.

My understanding of the Big Lie and how when a lie is so big it can only maintain itself for so long before it collapses under the weight of its own bullshit is what has very much kept me going throughout. There are other reference points throughout the history of liberal democracy which essentially make the same point (Many references throughout key points in American and French history make similar parallels about the truth always coming through eventually).

Anyway, Goebbels was repeating something that Hitler had previously said in Mein Kampf, only in a rehashed and more clear way. You may be relieved to know you don't have to read Mein Kampf to get the Hitler's take on the same thing. Its on wiki, under 'Big Lie'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

(Yes I did it. I quoted it on MN. Many people on twitter are now imploding and saying MN is full of Nazis).

The point he makes is that people are swayed more by emotional arguments than logical / rational arguments. Thus 'Be Kind' always wins. Thus disaffection always wins. It is about how much you can wind up the public - this is a form of radicalisation and we should not be surprised when deliberately winding up the public, when you get a small minority taking it too far and becoming dangerous, violent, abusive, coercive extremists who have anti-social behaviour. Because they've literally been encouraged to go down this route.

Hitler had a disregard for the intelligence of the general public and thought they were much dumber than him and could be manipulated. Ironically it was a sentiment he shared with Churchill; "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Churchill's argument was the average voter simply did not fully grasp the complexities of political issues and thus putting such ideas to vote through democracy is problematic and may not be in the best interests of the public. Its a dangerous path - and Churchill is something of a paradox because he essentially was an authoritarian leader during the war as necessity demanded he acted at times outside normal democratic checks and balances - whilst also remaining an icon of the defence of liberal democracy. (He's not the only example of this paradox either).

This was all picked up during the Brexit Referendum that actually, Remain never stood a chance because their campaign was all about logic and reason and therefore never really connected with a lot of people because they didn't have an emotional connection to the arguments being presented to them. (Conversely this where you do have a bunch of pro-EU crazies who break this idea for exactly the opposite reason because they DID have an emotional connection to the EU. And they have behaved, at times, in a way which was just as questionable as some of the worst Brexiteers). This was replicated by Trump. And this was again repeated by Corbyn's 2017 campaign and he very nearly got it over the line and it caught people off guard as to just how close it was (The closeness was predictable if you saw the dynamics and the momentum he got). And once again by Trump in 2024.

This is how politics is currently operating and there is an inability to get to grips with it and to make people passionate about the pursuit of 'enlightment' in the sense of its true meaning - without ideological bias. This is going to be something that is difficult to enable at this point because of these almighty swings from one extreme to the other and because there are such deliberate propagandic attempts to undermine this concept.

When its said we are in the midst of a Culture War its very much the case. The first casualty of war is the truth. Worst still the supposed defenders of this - the media - have been some of the worst offenders and have undermined their own existance by taking the easy route of opinion and being influenced by activists rather than upholding their commitment to unbiased reporting. The move from journalism to opinion columns has be catatrophic in this regard.

Having said all this, despite the issues with democracy, the problem lies with unchecked power and abuses of power. The public aren't stupid in the sense that they can and do pick up on these as they become the victims of authoritarians using their power beyond reason and against them. And this is where the media should be acting (and aren't acting well enough at the moment). This suits the Big Lie because you get all the powers of authority working together to uphold the lie rather than take it down bit by bit.

There are very much examples of the Big Lie going on all over the place right now. Getting people to look out for them and spot them is probably were we should doing and making the point that no single political grouping is doing this. Its absoluetely bloody everywhere.

We know that the Tobacco Industry did it for years and years. We know that the oil companies look likely to have done the same. I suspect we will see some pretty ugly things come from food manufacturers of ultra processed foods in years to come in terms of how they deliberately pursued addictiveness. And of course there's gender.

And thats it. We understand propaganda in terms of it being something that gets used in war, but people struggle to understand how its used in political campaigning to the degree it is and they definitely have blind spots in how its used in advertising and marketing just to flog you shit. Our world today is dominated by propaganda in a way that didn't exist even 50 years ago. It is weaponised against the interest of the public on so many levels.

This is why I very much think media studies has an essential place in basic education. The focus on 'online safety' misses the point that 'safe' content is fraught with so much of this bullshit. We need to get better at navigating it all.

Its all quite the mess at the moment.

Anyway, why do people believe the Big Lie?

Because ultimately they want to and because it fits with their lived experience and they can't be arsed to try and see things from alternative perspectives because that involves effect.

I would argue that the problem isn't that people are stupid. Its that they are lazy. Understand this and you take a completely different attitude and response to the problems these kind of political movements create. Thats why thought terminating cliches and 248 character messages have dominated. People look for simple solutions to complex and difficult problems because they are easy. They want a short cut. Everyone is looking for the magic bullet (quite literally in certain cases which recent events show).

Thats why highly intelligent people are just as susceptible to these Big Lies.

They can't be bothered to look further than the end of their noses. They don't want to be challenged. They don't want to think deeply. They don't want to do hard things. Thats why many who haven't been entrenched and have just gone with the bandwagon come across a life experience which is different they are more open to that experience than you might expect, because they just haven't thought about the subject matter that much.

The big lie falls apart on contact with the brick wall of reality... Its a timeywhimey law of physics that can not be broken.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 25/09/2025 10:25

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 25/09/2025 09:13

Quite! As we've said sooooo many times, if politicians are prepared to lie about something so fundamental & basic as biology ie that men can become women just be saying they are, then it's fair for ppl to assume they'll lie about anything if they choose too

theyre caught in a web of their own making!

If you meet someone new, start chatting to them and midway through the conversation they express their deeply felt belief that the world is flat then immediately you understand that they are detached from reality and unable to comprehend even the simplest of evidence.

It would not be unreasonable to assume that their options on other subjects could also detached from reality and be wary of everything that they say. Perhaps even treat them with contempt for wasting your time.

Why should a politician be treated differently?

anyolddinosaur · 25/09/2025 10:01

@IwantToRetire All politicians lie, no-one trusts them. Most of them happily declare rubbish like women can have a penis. What has happened to our so called "educated" people that they go along with those lies? Our schools and universities are places where young people are indoctrinated with nonsense and a belief in their innate superiority. They are encouraged to denigrate those who keep the country running.

What have politicians in the main political parties done - managed decline. There have been quite a few stories of corruption. Starmer has tried to point out that we didnt get into this mess in 5 years and it will probably take longer to recover from it but no-one is listening. He lacks authority, he lacks charm.

Reform are a way to say stop patronising us, stop telling us lies, stop telling us our country is the root of all evil. He's a means to protest. The lib dems are trying to pick up some of that vote but go on talking down to people and telling them they are stupid and they wont pick up those votes.

Attack Farage for his privileged education, for also thinking women can have a penis, for wanting to abolish the NHS in its current form. Attack him for his lack of solutions to our economic problems. Most of all attack him by doing things that actually benefit Farage's supporters.

LeftieRightsHoarder · 25/09/2025 09:46

Merrymouse · 21/09/2025 12:46

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’'

I would say this level of stupidity was very male, if so many women didn't express similar views.

He apparently lives in a world where nobody knows their sex so nobody can tell whether copious bleeding from your nether regions is a sign that you have your period or are minutes from death.

I have to laugh, even though it’s such a serious matter. Just ludicrous. I could almost think the whole thing was a massive practical joke carried out to reveal who were the biggest arse-lickers in the world.

somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 09:17

What really gets me is how the politicians can't see it as the squirrel though? We could all see Farage suddenly wanging on about trans as a non-issue. Why did they decide to run with it? BBC reporting adding to the pressure? They have the ability to know it's 0.01% of the population or whatever and therefore presumably have the sense to see it wasn't a raging issue.

Why all come out tying colours to the mast?

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 25/09/2025 09:13

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 25/09/2025 09:08

people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak

... and our politicians told us, straight faced, that some women have a penis and then put in place laws to adjust our thinking if we did not agree

Quite! As we've said sooooo many times, if politicians are prepared to lie about something so fundamental & basic as biology ie that men can become women just be saying they are, then it's fair for ppl to assume they'll lie about anything if they choose too

theyre caught in a web of their own making!

somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 09:11

Yup, Russia must be laughing it's tits off.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 25/09/2025 09:08

somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 08:55

I see that, but I also see that the agents of this IS often right wing. As @RedToothBrush Redtoothbrush pointed out it is often Farage shouting "squirrel" and politicians having to waste time to pivot to fight an imaginary bear that has no impact. It's tedious to watch when you see it play out. See this Trump/Farage paracetamol fight right now. We will have to spend millions setting the record straight, or trying to through Public Health channels, midwife checks, press conferences, no doubt a paper will have to be written...why? Because these idiots get air time and people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak.

people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak

... and our politicians told us, straight faced, that some women have a penis and then put in place laws to adjust our thinking if we did not agree

somethingnewandexciting · 25/09/2025 08:55

I see that, but I also see that the agents of this IS often right wing. As @RedToothBrush Redtoothbrush pointed out it is often Farage shouting "squirrel" and politicians having to waste time to pivot to fight an imaginary bear that has no impact. It's tedious to watch when you see it play out. See this Trump/Farage paracetamol fight right now. We will have to spend millions setting the record straight, or trying to through Public Health channels, midwife checks, press conferences, no doubt a paper will have to be written...why? Because these idiots get air time and people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak.

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 01:35

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say there, it seems garbled.
In hard times people tend to become more right wing.

Sorry you think it garbled.

I am just pointing out that all of you are trapped in the same out dated non working politics.

Its not about left or right wing its about people being willing dupes to lies.

It would be the same if a form of communism hadn't worked and the press and gossip whipped everybody up into a fervour of lets go for a more rigid communism.

It isn't about right wing.

It is about a sense of victim hood about things being done to them to people who voted for it.

But are stuck in the same cycle of we cant be wrong it must be everybody else, but are so stuck in limited lens of how the world works they just repeat the same patterns.

And effectively I am saying that much of the comments on here are also stuck in that.

If to quote the parody remark of people move to the right, is just contributing to people endlessly trapped in repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

Whine, whine, I spent 2 minutes reading a newspaper headline and gave you my vote, and now you aren't doing what I want based on my vast in depth analysis of the ecomonic problems in the UK.

Cant be me.

Must be somebody else. But hold on I voted for the politicians last time round, so it must somebody else. Must be those foreigners who do our shit work that we dont think we should have to do.

And this fake idea of what England was is part of this dillusion.

This isn't about anything but aping what they have seen on tv.

(And just to stress this isn't just about the "right" wing in the UK. Look at left demo where they think they are being as heroic and brave as freedom fighters facing a military regime. )

As predicted in the 50s "the medium is the message"

OP posts:
anyolddinosaur · 24/09/2025 22:26

@IwantToRetire I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say there, it seems garbled.

In hard times people tend to become more right wing. That is the parallel between Germany and now. Initially Germany's economy appeared to be improving, hence the Nazis grew popular support. They also used the TRA tactics of cancelling anyone who didnt agree with them. Unfortunately the left have been adopting similar tactics by insulting anyone who disagrees with them. Mock people in that deeply unpleasant fashion and you feed Farage.

A lot of people are unhappy with the political class in general. Farage feeds on that. Many people are not being offered a 5% pay rise and they arent getting a cut in immigration. They can hardly see a gp any more (but immigrants can be sent to see a doctor by taxi) and some cant work because they are waiting for NHS treatment. Stop pretending the country does not have problems. No poor person believes things re going to get better. The first thing Labour did was take money away not just from rich pensioners - which would have been popular - but from the poor grans and grandads of the poor. Then they backtrack and give it back to too many people. It shows disregard for the poor AND incompetence.

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Democracy means you have to take enough of the population with you. That means you dont keep telling them immigration benefits the country when they see fewer jobs, no pay rises because cheap labour can be imported and no council housing while their taxes go on funding illegal immigrants.

It has suited ALL the political parties to allow the narrative to be about immigrants as it distracts from the real problem of political incompetence. Farage doesnt have an answer to that either but he benefits from the idea that change is good, it wont be if the change is Farage.

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2025 20:53

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2025 18:16

What is ridiculous is that some people in the UK having been lied to by a posh jester who got to be the PM and got Brexit, which many now regret are just as gullible, or will to give up their critical faculties to believe in another (fake) posh jester.

All of you postulating all these elaborate thought processes clearly haven't listened to people when they are asked why they support Farage / Reform.

There is no articulation about how things could be done differently, but all about some sense that they are a victim. But not identifying the person who has victimised them as the political class but outsiders, loss of englishness (whatever that is).

Alll this forelock tugging subservience hasn't got them any where has it?

And I repeat, why is the opinion of this group of people the one we are supposed to take seriously, rather than say those who want to change they system, believe in old fashioned values such as fairness.

If you think it is about popularism, ie people are getting swept up in some false reality, that is really sad. You are saying our politics should be about what is popular not what is realistic.

Would you be saying the same in 1930s Germany when Hitler was popular?

I remember doing 'Arbeit, Freiheit und Brot'.

And a sense of grievance against WWI reparations coupled with hyper inflation.

It certainly wasn't just about hating jews.

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2025 20:35

fromorbit · 24/09/2025 19:04

Sarah Ludford 🇬🇧 🇮🇪🇪🇺 🇺🇦

Does this not put the LibDems in breach of the Equality Act under which, as confirmed by the Supreme Court, ‘woman’ means biological woman?
EdwardJDavey said ‘we’ (the party) ‘entirely accept the SC jt’, but he seems totally content for the party to continue to break the law.
Quote
Dont Walrus, we'll Walryou

Replying to @JournalistJill and @jk_rowling
In related news the Lib Dems have just given the annual award for an exceptional Liberal Democrat woman to... a man
https://x.com/MartinEgg3/status/1970777425639563524

Cant help feeling that they are enjoying the outrage. Any thing for a headline.

Or more probably a very performative action to publicly affirm their stance that TWAT oops! genuine typo, of course if mean TWAW

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 24/09/2025 20:32

I met Patsy Calton. She was a lovely woman.

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