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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What to call the wokerati

85 replies

BottomsByTheirTops · 17/09/2025 17:06

I realise this isn’t directly a FWR question, but I’m keen to hear opinions from reasonable people.
What is a sensible term to use to describe people we might term woke and that Americans call Liberal progressives?
People who believe in gender ideology, critical race theory, term anyone who disagrees with them fascists, term mainstream (imo) conservative opinions far right and who in the USA are currently trampling on Charlie Kirk memorials both physically and metaphorically.
It’s driving me crackers hearing these people described as liberal - when they’re authoritarian, progressives - when they promote regressive policies, kind - when they seem incapable of common decency.
Woke for me fits the bill - but it’s a difficult term that can be deflected.
Any ideas?

OP posts:
Namitynamename · 17/09/2025 21:46

BottomsByTheirTops · 17/09/2025 17:39

However are they left wing? All traces of socialism seem to have been removed from the Labour Party and the Democrats are just less right wing that the Republicans afaics

Yes. One problem is that there are many people on the left, including what would traditionally be the far left, who aren't at all sold on the Trans rights thing. And many people on the right who are.
Also, there probably are people who perfectly meet the "progressive" stereotype - obsessed with critical race theory, fanatically pro trans rights, communist in tube socks. But actually I think they are much less common than stereotype would have you believe. Most people (left and right) are a mix of political beliefs. Even someone who talks about "critical race theory" probably has a better justification for it and a more nuanced understanding than say Fox news would have you believe.
There are lots of very contentious causes that cross political boundaries. I don't think the "left wing omni-cause" is helpful. Anymore than "everyone who voted for Brexit a racist".

So even though I probably agree with you on GC issues I probably would zone out a bit of you started talking about wokerati. Maybe that's unfair and judgemental on my part. But it's just not something that fits with my daily experience.

Justme56 · 17/09/2025 21:37

The illiberal progressives is probably a better fit.

MaturingCheeseball · 17/09/2025 21:19

It depends how “woke” they are. At the far end I would say they are anti-establishment, supporting any disruptive cause. At the nearer end I suppose they’ve swallowed the BeKind pill and tie themselves in knots to justify being liberal to all. In the middle they are just Intolerant Hectoring Twats.

SidewaysOtter · 17/09/2025 21:16

@JamieCannister there's so much of your post I agree with. To me 'progressive' is "Let's do something practical and sensible to make the world a better place", "Woke" is "Who cares if it makes a difference as long as I can look good in a keffiyeh while I virtue signal my luxury beliefs".

Timeforabitofpeace · 17/09/2025 21:16

People who aren’t Bannon acolytes?

SidewaysOtter · 17/09/2025 21:13

What is a sensible term to use to describe people we might term woke

Insufferable?

GallantKumquat · 17/09/2025 21:10

BottomsByTheirTops · 17/09/2025 17:06

I realise this isn’t directly a FWR question, but I’m keen to hear opinions from reasonable people.
What is a sensible term to use to describe people we might term woke and that Americans call Liberal progressives?
People who believe in gender ideology, critical race theory, term anyone who disagrees with them fascists, term mainstream (imo) conservative opinions far right and who in the USA are currently trampling on Charlie Kirk memorials both physically and metaphorically.
It’s driving me crackers hearing these people described as liberal - when they’re authoritarian, progressives - when they promote regressive policies, kind - when they seem incapable of common decency.
Woke for me fits the bill - but it’s a difficult term that can be deflected.
Any ideas?

People who believe in gender ideology, critical race theory.

This is an interesting choice of examples. You should be able to subscribe to one or the other and argue the cause based merits, but because they're both part of the omni-cause rejecting one rejects the other and and all other left causes and makes you a persona non grata on the left.

And this is not (just) the function of purity policing - it's tooled into the ideology of leftwing causes themselves by the application of 'intersectionalism'; so, in practice it's virtually impossible to be for critical race theory and not be for gender ideology since they're both justified by 'personal truth', 'words are violence', equity-not-equality, and the manipulative use of 'inclusion' and 'diversity'.

KuchKuchHota · 17/09/2025 21:04

I quite like ‘New Puritans’ as described by Andrew Doyle.

I do agree, OP, that using liberal progressives makes zero sense.

soupycustard · 17/09/2025 20:54

Tricky! I try not to use any shorthand for it that involves 'the left' because I don't consider many people now called 'woke' to be particularly politically left-leaning. Seeing as this is on this forum, what is 'woke' about gender ideology?! A money earner for big pharma and private medicine; an easy way for global corporations to earn their 'diversity' points ( we're still employing white males; but they're trans white males -yay! Also, once, we planted a tree. To make up for the fact that we use more electricity than an entire sub-Saharan town. So we're, like, super green); massively individualistic etc
So ....Illiberal? Authoritarian? Unfeasibly individualistic and lacking in any concept nuance (!)?

Doorbellsandknockers · 17/09/2025 20:48

Ultra-liberal?

Namelessnelly · 17/09/2025 20:46

BottomsByTheirTops · 17/09/2025 17:06

I realise this isn’t directly a FWR question, but I’m keen to hear opinions from reasonable people.
What is a sensible term to use to describe people we might term woke and that Americans call Liberal progressives?
People who believe in gender ideology, critical race theory, term anyone who disagrees with them fascists, term mainstream (imo) conservative opinions far right and who in the USA are currently trampling on Charlie Kirk memorials both physically and metaphorically.
It’s driving me crackers hearing these people described as liberal - when they’re authoritarian, progressives - when they promote regressive policies, kind - when they seem incapable of common decency.
Woke for me fits the bill - but it’s a difficult term that can be deflected.
Any ideas?

Smug twunts. Works for me.

DrBlackbird · 17/09/2025 20:12

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 18:58

I think we, as a society have got worse at listening to those that disagree with us.

Do you listen when this particular group speak?

I think this is an interesting question. On the one hand, yes I generally believe in listening to opposing viewpoints. However, on the matter of TWAW I just cannot understand nor accept that men can become women. I also don’t believe in the concept of non binary. I don’t accept that men who feel they’re a woman can or should be allowed to access wsss’s. So I feel a bit stuck listening to those particular viewpoints.

SinnerBoy · 17/09/2025 20:04

Damn! Redrosesposies beat me to it!

Redrosesposies · 17/09/2025 19:53

Wankers

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 19:50

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/09/2025 19:41

Feminism is about women's rights. Woke people are trans activists and thus oppose women's rights.

According to you. Others see feminism as totally woke, damaging, liberal, leftist ideology that should be opposed at all costs. It's a completely subjective value judgement that communicates nothing except the user's contempt.

Exactly this. Many people consider feminism to be woke nonsense.

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 19:49

JamieCannister · 17/09/2025 19:33

I disagree completely.

Feminism is about women's rights. Woke people are trans activists and thus oppose women's rights.

I accept we are experiencing man-made climate change and think we should do much more about it. I do not support woke policies like trying to price ordinary people out of ordinary petrol cars, scrapping those perfectly good petrol cars and forcing people onto impractical buses (outside of cities) or into horrid, far too big and heavy, unproven in the long term EVs (that rely on CHina strip mining the entire continent of afica for the minerals for the batteries).

Progressive is ensuring that disabled people feature on TV. Woke is making sure every single scene in every single programme has at least one disabled person, one trans person, one black person and one drag queen, even if the programme is set in Scotland in 500BC.

As I understand it many who would claim to be on the progressive left and hard left would claim to be woke, and they would see woke very similar to me, except they would say it is good, whereas I say its bad.

To be clear I am progressive not woke - I support women, LGB, green policies, disabled rights (actually I note woke people seem to be quite happy to appropriate disabled spaces for trans people, and don't care about what problems "woke" TQ+ pedestrian crossings cause for blind people and their guide dogs).

To be woke is to be a deeply misguided person who thinks they are progressive but fail when judged against actual progressives.

So essentially being woke is soneone who advocates for a group you don't think deserve it or disagrees with you on how to tackle climate change or other social issues.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/09/2025 19:41

Feminism is about women's rights. Woke people are trans activists and thus oppose women's rights.

According to you. Others see feminism as totally woke, damaging, liberal, leftist ideology that should be opposed at all costs. It's a completely subjective value judgement that communicates nothing except the user's contempt.

JustTalkToThem · 17/09/2025 19:38

Why are we including BLM and CRT with this? ... Do people here not believe that Black Lives Matter?

JamieCannister · 17/09/2025 19:33

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/09/2025 19:16

It also means feminists, people who accept we are experiencing manmade climate change, TV programmes that have disabled people in them etc.

I agree with @GCornotGCthatisthequestion it's become a totally meaningless descriptor that communicates contempt. I find it better when people are specific with their criticism.

I disagree completely.

Feminism is about women's rights. Woke people are trans activists and thus oppose women's rights.

I accept we are experiencing man-made climate change and think we should do much more about it. I do not support woke policies like trying to price ordinary people out of ordinary petrol cars, scrapping those perfectly good petrol cars and forcing people onto impractical buses (outside of cities) or into horrid, far too big and heavy, unproven in the long term EVs (that rely on CHina strip mining the entire continent of afica for the minerals for the batteries).

Progressive is ensuring that disabled people feature on TV. Woke is making sure every single scene in every single programme has at least one disabled person, one trans person, one black person and one drag queen, even if the programme is set in Scotland in 500BC.

As I understand it many who would claim to be on the progressive left and hard left would claim to be woke, and they would see woke very similar to me, except they would say it is good, whereas I say its bad.

To be clear I am progressive not woke - I support women, LGB, green policies, disabled rights (actually I note woke people seem to be quite happy to appropriate disabled spaces for trans people, and don't care about what problems "woke" TQ+ pedestrian crossings cause for blind people and their guide dogs).

To be woke is to be a deeply misguided person who thinks they are progressive but fail when judged against actual progressives.

YourTruthorMine · 17/09/2025 19:29

I prefer Narcissists myself. I like to keep things simple

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/09/2025 19:16

JamieCannister · 17/09/2025 18:10

Woke is not meaningless.

Woke USED to mean "awake to social injustice" and come from a black american perspective.

Woke NOW means "I support the racism of BLM, the misogyny and homophobia of TQ+. I support Critical Social Justice. I support environmental "justice" uncritically. I believe micro-agression are horrible and that people who do not support my views need to be re-educated and or sacked / shamed."

It also means feminists, people who accept we are experiencing manmade climate change, TV programmes that have disabled people in them etc.

I agree with @GCornotGCthatisthequestion it's become a totally meaningless descriptor that communicates contempt. I find it better when people are specific with their criticism.

BottomsByTheirTops · 17/09/2025 19:09

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 17:47

If you want people to listen to you or open their minds I would suggest that you articulate what you are actually referring to rather than using buzzards like "woke".

It's meaningless. It's used in the same way as PC gone mad used to be

Well exactly this: that’s why I’m asking for ideas for better terms.

OP posts:
GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 18:58

Justwrong68 · 17/09/2025 18:03

If this particular group of people listened, this wouldn’t be an issue

I think we, as a society have got worse at listening to those that disagree with us.

Do you listen when this particular group speak?

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 18:56

JamieCannister · 17/09/2025 18:10

Woke is not meaningless.

Woke USED to mean "awake to social injustice" and come from a black american perspective.

Woke NOW means "I support the racism of BLM, the misogyny and homophobia of TQ+. I support Critical Social Justice. I support environmental "justice" uncritically. I believe micro-agression are horrible and that people who do not support my views need to be re-educated and or sacked / shamed."

I'm black and very aware of the original meaning of woke thank you very much.

However it's now used as a catch-all dismissive term.

For example, this Daily Fail article uses it to describe sandwiches
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14086091/gen-z-waging-war-sandwiches-ditching-classic-flavours.html

JamieCannister · 17/09/2025 18:10

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 17/09/2025 17:47

If you want people to listen to you or open their minds I would suggest that you articulate what you are actually referring to rather than using buzzards like "woke".

It's meaningless. It's used in the same way as PC gone mad used to be

Woke is not meaningless.

Woke USED to mean "awake to social injustice" and come from a black american perspective.

Woke NOW means "I support the racism of BLM, the misogyny and homophobia of TQ+. I support Critical Social Justice. I support environmental "justice" uncritically. I believe micro-agression are horrible and that people who do not support my views need to be re-educated and or sacked / shamed."