Another breastfeeding one

Sorry, it's "offensive and distressing" to refer to women and mothers as ladies and mamas?

I find your comments about women deeply regressive and oppressive. Women have a right to exist and it's not enforcing a GC viewpoint to say that. Least of all in the context of a breastfeeding support group.

If some women cannot cope with the reality that they are women, then they deserve compassion and mental health support - but they do not have the right to bully, shame and silence other women, or to deny breastfeeding support to those women.

Trans men and “non binary” breastfeeders are women so they go to the same places women go for support.
Duh

What does it mean to identify as a woman?? I’d love to know. I “identify” as a woman because I AM a biological woman but apparently that’s the wrong and bigoted view and it’s something to do with wearing pink or lipstick or something.

Also why would you do the some of the most womanly things possible - be pregnant and give birth and breastfeed - and then say you don’t identify with being a woman?! Why should we pander to these bonkers people and then let them pretend they have nowhere to go for support

But we do this all the time in these types of forums - we try to make allowances and be cautious in our language for people when certain terminology might cause them distress even if it's not our own experience and we don't fully understand why it might cause distress such as utilising trigger warnings for certain topics or using acronyms instead of full terms/blanking parts of words out etc.

We know that there are people who experience distress from gender dysphoria. Irregardless of what you believe around why that is, i think we can accept that there are people who find this difficult and upsetting. We also know that the adjustment around birth can be very difficult for people who fall in that category. My question is why you want to make that harder for them than it necessarily needs to be and why you'd want to isolate them because it's more important to you to be right and to see your own view point enforced and to enact your own right to call someone something even when it distresses them, than it is to see people access support in a way they can engage with it.

And how do trans men and non binary (biological women) get breastfeeding support then? It's one thing when you're in a group and you know all the other people in that group are women and identify as such, in which case work away and refer to them as such. But when you know someone in the group finds that offensive and distressing then I would question why it's so important to you to label them in a way that causes them upset and distress even if it's difficult for you to understand why it has that effect on them or you don't agree with it. In my mind that's just basic respect and decency. And it's already been clarified that there are non binary and trans men in the group that's been discussed. Do those members not also deserve support? Can you not see that there is a difficult balance for facilitators/moderators to then try to find a fair balance to accommodate as many biologically female people as possible who are wishing to breastfeed? I don't see a difference between enforcing trans ideology and trying to erase the existence of women and being so overtly GC that you're prepared to enforce a GC viewpoint on others and try to erase the existence and experience of trans/ non binary people. There has got to be a middle ground where people can co exist. Or if you are not prepared to go exist then you need to find an openly GC source of support which is your right.

Not to mention that parenting is tough and if people want to make it about meeeee, everyone change their language to suit meeeee not the majority, they’re basically fucked in terms of raising children. I do feel AWFUL for these poor kids being gaslighted into being told they don’t have a mother when they do. I couldn’t imagine being so selfish

Shhh stop being logical.

What about the people offended by the neutral language?

And actually as a GC person I’d be asked to not refer to women as women. That offends me, goes against every belief I have. I wouldn’t be bowing to such a ridiculous request.

If everyone in the group is lactating then they are all women. Why can’t they be referred to as women?

Surely most transmen have had their breasts removed - so why would they need to be included in breastfeeding advice? Am I missing something?

The focus of these groups seems less to be on supporting women who breastfeed and more on the facilitators gaining cool girl points for being so 'trans inclusive'

If someone had objected to me using word like ladies and girls when talking to fellow women who breastfeed I would have thought they were quite silly. If they had said support by the group was dependant on centering the feelings of trans identified people who have given birth and breastfeed but don't think the are female I would have known the group was a waste of time anyway.

Patronising bilge by smug idiots who really need to go and get fluffy jobs handing out rainbow lanyards and leave actual support of breastfeeding women and their babies to practitioners who don't see their role as enforcing trans theory on others.

But in this instance all that has been asked is that neutral language be used when addressing a collective. Terms that my group use themselves all the time naturally because they still clearly fit within the English language. So even if you're GC you're not being asked to say anything that isn't still completely applicable. The issue here is not the erasure of women or the right to refer to yourself however you wish, it's the demand to refer to other people using terms that make those other people uncomfortable.

Noone has been told to gtfo, they were politely encouraged to adjust their post and I think if you want to engage in fair debate then you need to be factual about what's actually been asked of women in the group. There's been a lot of conjecture in this thread that I think has created a bit of a spiral.

Well yes exactly. The irony of the so-called tolerant and inclusive. What they mean is “tolerant of people just like us. Nobody else”

The vast, vast majority of online groups will have some degree of terms of reference or talk guidelines though and that will vary from group to group. From nursing support groups to hobby groups. I think as long as it's made clear to people at the outset then it's very much for them to make an informed choice as to whether its a group they want to participate in or not.

Cis is exclusive language, not inclusive

”We know you are here because you need support but if your views don’t match the ones I demand GTFO” is not inclusive

Well said

I’d like to know this too.
how does one “feel” like a woman?

It’s a Facebook group not an arm of the UN. You have the right to ask I guess, if you wanna spend your life being a power hungry weirdo who forces the beliefs of others. But then don’t claim you’re such a good, caring inclusive group you’re better than actual qualified NHS staff

Personally I think your rules mean that you should take out the words ‘we do not discriminate’. It seems like you very much do.

But that's okay - you can also choose not to engage in spaces where there is a clear and set out in advance boundary that participants will use inclusive language. Such as the group in question. Either you agree to the terms of participation and engage under those terms or you don't and you go elsewhere...

No, cis is not a descriptive word akin to tall or thin, give over 🙄
Woman is a stand-alone word, it doesn’t need any qualifier.

What a bonkers thread

”Cis” is not an adjective related to humans. For it to be so, the definition of gender needs to make sense, and it doesn’t, it’s nonsensical, and relies on obnoxious stereotypes and word salad to include men in the definition of women.

How would I know? How can I tell?

You would know.

If I wanted to find out if I was cis gender or gender fluid, how would I find out?

No one is telling you to use the term for yourself either 🤦🏼‍♀️

What exactly in your life aligns with your gender?
How do you know you are cis gender and not gender fluid?