Another breastfeeding one

Errr don’t you mean birthing parents and babies! I’m slightly worried about your transphobia here. You do know not everyone who chestfeeds is a mother?

“Women using made up labels” and “I have no problem with their existence and wholeheartedly wish them well” don’t go together unfortunately. Also then calling them self obsessed… you’re a real charmer.

Not as many as you hoped

Less than 25 - it's not a new rule. We were just updating group info yesterday but it's been a rule since about 2022 ISH!

Inclusion does go both ways but the group as a whole is diverse so when addressing the whole group gender neutral language is used. If you insist on using gendered language you are excluding some members. Any member can refer to themselves how they please they just don't get to assume how anyone else identifies.

We’re at 57,500, so..

So you don’t let transmen join? Or are you saying transmen are not men? Slightly transphobic there.

Or perhaps we just don’t agree with excluding vulnerable minorities?

Nobody is excluding women. You identify as whatever you like.

I’m a women, she/her. Mum to my kids. But if I walked into a room and saw a mix of men and women and addressed the men in the room and ignored the women, the women would be excluded. That is literally as simple as this is. “Good evening all” includes everyone in the room, including the mice crawling around in the floorboards. Literally nobody is upset.

”Be kind” but only if it suits your views on minority groups.

I can’t believe these two posters are at all health professionals. This is the strangest run of comments.
It’s really unsympathetic to new mums. I don’t call myself or anyone else mama, but I know people who find it a useful term to help them through a difficult transitional period in their life, I think it helps them find strength in a new identity.
I wouldn’t be remotely upset be being referred to as a mama, especially as every health professional you meet from birth onwards just calls you ‘mum’ in every interaction.

Its sad you would police ordinary women’s inoffensive language when they are so vulnerable and need help.

Nope using breastfeeding AND lactation would include all and anyone who is lactating. If a person isn't lactating then they wouldn't be in the group unless they are a health care professional working with those who are lactating.

It's not just the word "mamas" though is it? Its any reference to women or mothers at all. People are free to refer to themselves however they want, but they shouldnt get to demand that everyone else erases their own identity to make them feel better. Why doesnt the inclusion go both ways?

Of course we give consideration to those with disabilities and if you were in the group you'd know that we treat cases on an individual basis so not sure where you're getting that from 🧐

I think that's where this particular thread does tend to be a bit of an echo chamber though. I follow along because I appreciate hearing different perspectives and try to understand where others are coming from but I do think it's a bit sad that you'd assume only one person could possibly see this differently out of all of mumsnet.

It's a breastfeeding AND lactation support group which covers that point. The demographic is anyone who lactates including those who identify as trans. We also have HCPs not all of whom are female or even parents but work in roles where they need to support lactation such as midwives, health visitors, GPs, etc not all of which need to be female to do 🤦🏼‍♀️

I did some training to be a bf counselor recently. The only course available to me was an online programme, based in Canada I think. I was advised from rhe start that they were in the process of updating course materials to be more inclusive. "Mother" and "breastfeeding" were being phased out and "parent" and "human milk feeding" were being introduced instead. It didn't feel inclusive to me, it felt like erasure.

There will be women in breastfeeding groups who have disabilities, in numbers well above those who don't identify as mothers. But I'm pretty sure they don't give consideration to those who cannot hear their baby cry, or who cannot support baby with two arms. There is a default "breastfeeding parent" and it's not exclusive to assume that, because you can't anticipate every difference in a group of thousands. I think most people understand that, but unsure why a particular group of women get special mention.

(And yes, I used to be in your group Becky).

They are just women using made up labels. I have no problem with their existance and wholeheartedly wish them well. Motherhood is very sanctifying, grounding and an excellent remedy to unhealthy levels of introspection and obsession with the self.

Why do you hate trans and non-binary people so much?

I am a mother of two kids the only two people who call me mum or mama I don't want other grown adults referring to me as mama I'm not their mum and it's weird AF!! I successfully breastfed my children due to support which is why I started the group 8.5 years ago. My 57000+ members don't care about being inclusive.
My group doesn't affect you so why are you crying about it on Mumsnet? Weird use of your time.

Gosh you are a bunch of charmers.
It’s great that you have such a huge amount of experience and expertise. Well done.
It’s great that you want to support people with additional needs around their breastfeeding experiences.
And the struggles of transmen who may have not known the impact their transition could have on their future needs is a real concern of mine, so I’m glad someone is looking into it. My friend is adamant she doesn’t want DC, but I felt the same way at that age. I’d hate her to struggle in the future.

But. Can you not see how massively unfriendly and off putting your attitude is? By all means support everyone. Laudable! But being oppressive around language isn’t inclusive at all! Use all the words, not just some of them!

typo

Probably because Brest feeding is not a word yes.

The 57,000+ members we have also don't care about how others identify and are okay with the group being inclusive. They're only bothered about their own journey and support.

But saying ‘Breast feeding and lactation’ excludes them. You’re using exclusionary language.