Another breastfeeding one

Your replies are very exclusionary.

Again - not deleted! Asked to change ONE word, then reposted and supported. It’s really not that deep, @Honish!

I have never excluded any woman from anything. This silly subject matter that you are so oddly preoccupied with doesn't come up in normal circles, probably because mothers are preoccupied with actually mothering and genuinely supporting each other rather than placing demands on people over trivial, irrelevant personal details.

We don't delete them 🤦🏼‍♀️

Right, that’s why she’s dedicated 8 years of her life to supporting people with feeding their babies, created a huge space to do so and assisted with the training of numerous peer supporter in the process (myself included), and is now training further to help bring those same babies into the world safely.

You have made a decision which is coloured by your own worldview and fears, about who Bec is and why she does what she does. But I can tell you for damn certain that you’re wrong. And that despite all the vitriol you’ve spewed at her today; she’ll get up again tomorrow and keep on helping mothers with their babies, and any other iteration of lactating person who needs support feeding their baby too. Just like she helped me, twice over. Which is why I trained, and joined as an admin, to pay that forward.

I wonder what you’ll do tomorrow to provide real, actionable support in the world of infant feeding?

4/5 of my babies had posterior tongue-tie, I've benefitted from incredible breastfeeding support over the years. Which is exactly why I have found it so upsetting to hear that you routinely delete womens posts, women who are seeking help for something so vital, simply because it began with something like 'Hey mamas' or 'Hi ladies'.
I find that devastating.

I absolutely do, alongside everyone else who are parents and lactates. I use pronouns the individual asks me to use. So I care more about people than you clearly do, you'd purposefully exclude someone from support because their gender beliefs aren't the same as yours.

Men can get breast cancer too but will not necessarily engage with health advertisements around breast cancer as they do not see themselves as having breasts. Is it medical misinformation or is it widening a much needed campaign in order to encourage more people to check themselves properly and accurately and catch any concerns earlier?

I would say that refusing to provide accessible healthcare information that puts demographics of our population who may be affected at risk is pure evil.

Especially when there continues to be a lot of campaigning done that also includes how to check yourself for male/female/ non binary individuals AS WELL AS campaigns specifically targeting women which use female specific language. We need our healthcare to be more inclusive not less inclusive provided that is done in tandem with female specific language/visual aids etc. That is not erasure of female experience. It's inclusion of male/ non binary/trans experience. Also important for trans individuals with SEN/ men who's first language is not English.

Just because some embrace the identity of being a mother or being named as a mother and it isnt insulting or dismissive to them doesnt mean it isnt dismissive to others. No one has said to "hide" or "avoid" using the word mother/mama/mummy but to avoid using them as a COLLECTIVE noun. Its really not that hard to grasp.

You don't care about mothers and babies, that is very clear.

Oh I am aware what they are alluding to but also incorrect as a whole. Doesn't want men in the group but also doesn't want profiles being vetted either. Says theyll take to their LLL friend but anyone who knows anything about LLL know they are also trans inclusionary. They're not actually interested in good lactation or breastfeeding support they just want to be transphobic.

Very proud of my group and my contributions to infant feeding in general. What do you do to help?

Absolutely noone at any point has said that women cannot refer to themselves however they may choose. They have said that in this particular group the terms of agreement are that you use neutral language to refer to other people.

I think what @Honish is alluding to is that you are the sexual deviant in this scenario and have created the group to meet your own needs to exploit women. The impressive mental gymnastics it took to get there are quite something. And it's amazing to me that anyone would call that respectful debate as opposed to a personal attack which to me breach the mumsnet terms of use. @mnhq

Yes this perversion, subterfuge and misinformation when it comes to medical terminology in cancer information is putting women's lives at risk, particularly those for whom English is not their first language. Pure evil.

It’s not “respectful” to expect anyone to avoid referring to themselves as female, a woman or a mother because someone else can’t cope with it.
Why does all this respect that’s demanded only ever go one way?

Why do you persist in dehumanising and disrespecting women? I find your attitude incredibly disturbing when combined with your apparent profession. 'Lactating people' is cold, callous, dehumanising. These are women, breastfeeding women, these are mothers. You are forcing this derogatory and unscientific terminology on them, policing, censoring, bullying and controlling them when they are at their most vulnerable. Are you proud of that?

In your opinion, as according to your own views and beliefs around sex and gender. But different people, believe different things. So it's simply being respectful with your use of language (without erasing any one else) in order to try and make support around feeding more accessible for people who might otherwise struggle to engage with it. Same as creating campaigns around breastcancer that use accessible language to make it easier for trans/ non binary/ male people to engage with an important issue. You don't personally have to agree with their belief system, but if you're engaging in a shared space that involves some form of social contract you will be expected to be respectful of the differences that exist between people in that space?

Well that's coz you're incorrect about what the group is..it's to give help, support and information to ALL lactating people and lactating people only are allowed. So no males who are wanting to sexualise breastfeeding wouldn't be in there due to our vetting process which you also seem to take issue with. So you don't want us to check who is in the group but are worried about who may be in the group.

So it’s ok to refer to them as Mums?
If not, why not? It’s what they are, however much anyone protests against it.

Why would anyone need to bother with a fake profile when the entire premise of the group seems to be to allow males to indulge in a sexual fantasy of pretending to be a breastfeeding mother. I am appalled.

Would that be when they are asked to say "everyone" or "anyone" or just be called by their actual name by HCP unless they request otherwise? Because those are the only examples that have actually been mentioned in this thread. Is that really what we are now classing as mangled language?

Wait, so you’re concerned about the potential presence of male voyeurs in a breastfeeding group AND horrified by the idea of verifying the identity of prospective members in order to prevent male voyeurs from being able to join?

That must be a very confusing position to be in.

I see no reason why language must be mangled to include women who’ve given birth but feel offended at being referred to as a mother.

You do not know me. You know nothing about the group I co-run which does not only operate in an online space. At NO point did anyone say they found the word 'mum' repulsive. Asking someone to simply say everyone when referring to a mixed group is not gratuitous terminology particularly when it's coupled with language that is specific to women as well therefore not erasing the female experience. I have entered into this discussion in good faith simply with a different viewpoint. You have attacked my own parenting and trauma, made unfair assumptions about my upbringing and then used that upbringing nastily to attempt to undermine me, you have made assumptions about my gender and are threatening to try and post online to start a smear campaign and repeatedly directed posts at me after I stated that I would no longer engage with you due to the personal and unpleasant nature of your posts. I would never suggest that any woman sends identifiable or intimate images into a forum where she does not know the admins or members and cannot contact them in real life.

I understand that you are highly triggered right now due to fears around the harms men cause in this world but that does not give you the excuse to attack other women simply for disagreeing with you and having a different viewpoint.