Charlie Kirk assassin was living with trans roommate

I found that to be a highly informative article. The author seems to have made efforts for conclusions to follow from the facts.

Loads? It's a one paragraph post.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

So do you reckon it was his gaming and coming to terms with his sexuality that was at the root of it? And there's nothing new about adolescent sexual confusion. So gaming. I knew the young need reasoning and comprehension training, but it seems this poor kid needed the concept of reality explained to him.

What about cannabis or cannabinoid vapes? Much less benign that it seemed in the sixties.

Was challenging myself today to listen to diverse viewpoints and in the process ended up watching this today. Made alot of sense. Its 25 minutes long ( you can speed it up if time pressed) but we the people could learn alot from this both sides of the pond how the division is coming from the top and joe bloggs are suffering because of it.

This gives a wider picture of his discord messages.

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/exclusive-leaked-messages-from-charlie

That was exactly my experience. I dont feel like I align with many people who say they are on the left nowadays - but maybe that is their fault not ours!

I don't doubt that but I also think the internet can amplify stuff. We'd be blissfully unaware of a lot of it if we didn't read it online.

Just on that theme:

There used to be a neopagan blogger called The Archdruid, who was an older guy who had been around the scene for decades. I don't know if his blog is still around.

He once said something very interesting about young people - let's be honest, overwhelmingly young women - who come onto the pagan or occult scene with a lot of political baggage in which they were far too emotionally invested. Not that they necessarily had a deep understanding of politics, but they were very passionate about their team.

He noticed that they immediately wanted to go to the dark stuff, hexes and curses. He advised them that even if they knew what they were doing, that was dangerous; even if you don't believe in black magic, conducting rituals with an intense focus on negative emotions was not healthy. His advice was to focus on something constructive they wanted to achieve in the world, and to generate some positive energy around that. The girls weren't interested. They just wanted to know how to hex Trump.

We've always had mystics alongside materialists, and most of us have a bit of both. I think what's new about our postmodern/queer/gamer moment is a lot of people have this idea that they can construct their ideal fantasy world and impose it on material reality. Even L Ron Hubbard might have thought they were going a bit too far with it.

I re-did the political compass test, and was somewhat surprised that I came out near the centre of the left/libertarian quadrant, much where I was a few years ago. The reason I'm surprised is that I feel I'm less inclined to give the "right" answer than I was, less inclined to "virtue signal", and more comfortable with being a mix of "progressive" and "conservative". Maybe the questions missed asking about my more conservative side. Maybe my conservative side is balanced by my liberal instincts to let people behave in ways I don't personally like provided they don't directly impact other people negatively.

@Datun when they come up against the massive brick wall of real life, everything shatters

It seems to me that we are living through a time when the old left/right, liberal/authoritarian divides (as measured by the political compass test, which is still worth taking https://www.politicalcompass.org/test ) are not understood by a lot of young people, who experience a world where the big divide is between people who live in reality and people who live in illusion, and for whom illusion is more important than material reality, science, facts, sex, life and death.

That is a religious mindset, and unlike a lot of the old religions, including Judaism and Christianity, where over the centuries those who prioritise the material and/or spiritual realities have worked to find a balance, this new belief system cannot cope with heresy or atheists.

Without something shattering.

I never said it wasn't. I disagreed with the statement that there's no such thing. You're trying to shoehorn loads of other stuff in there which frankly I can't be arsed to read.

Main Character Syndrome arrogance that he's special.

'hate'.

As in when a 13 year old rants at his parents that they hate him because they asked him to tidy his room and do his homework.

That's about the level of it.

Rather than deep and meaningful understanding of political nuance and understanding.

Oh I agree, I may have worded it badly. Not meant to mock the speculation, more just stunned that, given how James Bond-y it seemed, it actually turned out to just be some regular looking lad who thought dumping the rifle with his prints on in a bush just across the road from the roof he carried out the assassination on was a good idea.

Yes, that's how the emerging story looks to me. With the political element being hatred against someone because they have views that "my group" hates, but possibly not much underlying that.

Assassination by a weirdo lost in overlapping worlds of make believe. As I said, this is not going to be forming part of the narrative the far Right will be working hard to develop.

Quite a few people have put Tyler /Lance's text conversation through AI and it says it is AI.

But this depends on which tool you use and what you ask it.

Looking at responses Chat CPT says things like it's too long winded, too dramatic and too fixated on certain points (like the bullets). Grok has given different explanations - some saying similar to ChatGPT and some saying that his stilted conversation owes a lot to autism or problems with reality but not necessarily AI.

I'm at a loss to know what to believe tbh. Its not conclusive either way to me.

I think it depends what else comes out in further explanations.

Having thought some more about his gobsmacking naivety, I suppose if anyone is going to be naive about this it’s someone who comes from a nice law abiding Mormon family.

Maybe he didn’t even grow up watching the cop shows that most of us get our ideas about the police from.

I think that's exactly how he saw it in his mind.

He'll have plenty of time to think about it. Utah is a death penalty state, but they use it sparingly, and with appeals taking as long as they do, the four or five death row prisoners in the state have all been inside for 30 years or more.

It's something I read up about some years ago when I was digging into the Mark Hofmann bombings. (A fascinating story of murder, forgery, religion and history - I recommend it to anyone who's into true crime.) Hofmann could have got the death penalty but didn't. He's coming up on 40 years in prison this year and will almost certainly never be released.

And to think there was speculation that this was the work of a professional hit man.

He managed to pull off the actual assassination and subsequent escape with frightening efficiency, although perhaps that was beginner's luck? That's why people thought it might be a professional hit.

The reality turned out to be more Mr Bean than James Bond. He definitely seems to have thought he was going to get away with it. I wonder what on earth happened to him that he thought it was worth even to RISK throwing away his entire life (and that of a stranger) at age 22?

I had that exact reaction!!!

"People that don't exist can't present any threat to women's rights surely?"

Correctly categorising this group of male people doesn't 'deny their existence'. And your repeated point simply doesn't make sense.

A group of male people are again causing significant pressure on the rights for female people to have single sex provisions. What is different compared to any other group of male people trying to remove the rights of female people to suit their own political agenda and their own wish list?

You are telling us there is a difference between this group of male people and the other groups of male people. They are all part of the same patriarchical structure, just because we reject their demand to use the category label doesn't make them disappear at all.

FFS. This is basic material reality. If we removed the label for female people altogether, will that mean that female people cease to exist in reality and that some how those female people don't still have the same needs as when we used the terms?

However, forcing the collective category label to include a group of male people (who are part of group oppressing the collective of people known as female people) does indeed significantly decrease the protection of that collective group. The group of female people still exist, but there is then no way to protect their needs.

So, the male group of people exist because they are still part of the collective category called male people and they certainly do continue to threaten 'women's rights'. I am not sure how you are coming to the this soundbite of 'if they don't exist they cannot present a threat to women's rights'? It sounds more like a superficial soundbite than a thought out rational response.

And to think there was speculation that this was the work of a professional hit man.

From his naivety in the messages, it seems he thought it could play out like a video game mission. Drive to location, assassinate a high profile man in front of thousands of NPCs, leave location and the police will just stop looking and despawn if you stay out of their line of sight for a short while.

Stupid, stupid lad. He's thrown his whole life away for nothing, he's achieved fuck all. What a senseless waste of two lives.

I watched some of his content for the first time t'other night.

Nick Fuentes was one of the names that kept coming up on Twitter, with outrighted far right Republicans saying CK was 'moderate' in comparison to NF and others.

I mean Nick Fuentes is basically an internet entrepreneur whose grift is provocative behaviour. Last seen hanging out with Kanye West and Milo Yiannopoulos, of whom we can say that Kanye is often off his meds and Milo is the ur-example of the internet provocation grifter.

I am really unconvinced that Fuentes leads a disciplined body of fascists with the capacity to take out their opponents. They got headlines a few years back for disrupting Charlie Kirk events on a smaller scale than the campus left used to do.

It would be useful if people learned to distinguish between political operators with genuine power and influence and followers, and insignificant dingbats who make a lot of noise on social media.

Poor fucking Ethan Hawke - what did HE do??