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Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:22

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

do you just search for threads with trans in the title

I think that might be you.

This is the feminism sex and gender discussion board, and the post you referenced was about men.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:19

Seriously, what is with the 'but but but but...what about trans men?' attempt at a gotcha? In 2025. Do these posters who we've never seen in this part before truly think they are the first poster ever to come up with that? Like as if we haven't heard it at least around 9 thousand times so far?

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:16

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2025 09:39

As I said on previous thread

This shooting would therefore fit with patterns of radicalisation akin to religion, it would fit with a right wing gun culture, it would fit with youth disaffection with mainstream politics, it would fit with difficult online communities which are out of sight from authorities, it would fit with the lone, quiet gunman AND it would fit with uncontrolled and unchallenged purity spirals within left wing politics.

But I doubt you'll see many people reflect on all these patterns, instead they'll focus on whichever element best fits their agenda.

I think we have a perfect storm scenario that's only growing. I suspect we will see others from other areas as youth disaffection grows and anger at the establishment rises. Historical data shows revolutions and civil unrest is much more common with high youth unemployment / underemployment and declining standards of living regardless of political affiliation. It's important we look at this from all angles.

I'd also add alienation from your traditional community to the list and being part of a death cult feeling like it was under threat tbh.

My point being there will be no one reason, but a build up of multiple ones which are as difficult for the right to reconcile with themselves as it will be for the left meaning the likely result will be to lash out at the other rather to reflect on the elements from their own sphere of influence.

What is clear to me in this case is however you cut it, and I think this is true of every shooter, is they they are a product of BOTH their upbringing and the influences they come across later.

It is crucial to understanding this that being from a Mormon conservative background which was right wing and heavily invested in guns was as crucial as a left wing radicalisation and potentially gay/trans partner and BOTH are highly likely to have contributed to the killers mindset and this is an unavoidable reality that pretty much no one wants to acknowledge. The possibility of a trans element is only one strand of a bigger picture and it is not this alone which is the problem if it is proven.

As it stands, there a lot of speculation on twitter going through Lance's online presence from user names, forums and associates which do suggest he was furry/trans but I am still taking with a degree of a pinch of salt at this stage. There's nothing I find wholly trustworthy at this point. And this doesn't mean he's involved.

And we can't forget the question that was asked immediately before Kirk was shot. That question isn't going away.

What I would say is there is something of a problem for trans people in Utah right now because on top of the above and the speculation around it there seems to be one account linked to Lance saying 'we did it' in reference to Kirk, another Utah trans account saying the day before that they hoped Kirk would be evaporated and that something big would happen the next day and a third trans account from someone in Utah linked to a song put online a month ago called 'Charlie Kirk dead at 31'. Given the sheer amount of threats and wishing for the death of political opponents maybe we shouldn't read much into this, because it's been so widely accepted within communities as to become noise rather than something more sinister. This is why putting a load of threats online isn't a great move because you can't predict the future and you might end up caught in a situation with your metaphorical dick hanging out in public.

These apparent threats are naturally raising some eyebrows after the fact about a wider potential conspiracy rather a lone gunman idea. I think this perception is actually going to be really hard to shift even if it's a load of nonsense and pure coincidence. Because even if it is noise it's still normalised and in the background.

I don't think for one second that the FBI won't be all over this angle, looking through discord and anyone remotely linked to both Lance and Tyler though because if it is right it has somewhat significant implications about how they handle the case.

But they have to be right. If they get it wrong there are some very genuinely vulnerable trans people at significant risk at this point.

It's a mess. There are going to be innocent people caught up in the fallout out from this and it's naive to suggest otherwise.

As much as I think trans is bollocks and there's a lot of very questionable individuals who identify as trans I am, and have always been, concerned about vulnerable individuals especially young kids who have been mislead, groomed and otherwise lied to about being trans and the implications of that. This incident will affect perceptions regardless of the truth and what comes out in time.

It sucks for everyone concerned tbh.

Has there been confirmation that he was LDS?

From what I know of Mormon mummy blogs, it's a very tightly knit world, where most people his age will be thinking about going on missions or getting married. Even if you are at the more 'liberal' end of the spectrum, there seems to be a strong expectation that you will get married young and have at least four children, and spend the rest of your life taking on responsibilities within the church that are pretty much a full time job.

It's not like being a lapsed catholic or non practicing jew where there is a pattern for remaining part of the community even if you don't believe. Its much more 'you're in or you're out'.

There are so many parts of this shooting that are difficult to fathom from the other side of the pond.

Helleofabore · 15/09/2025 10:14

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

This is posted on the separated board set up to have discussions around how gender identity interacts with the needs and rights of female people. Anyone who uses this board regularly will likely be reading this thread.

Feminism is, of course, for all female people. That includes those female people who hold the philosophical belief that they are men or boys. Meaning that usually any discussion about the needs of female people includes that group of female people as well.

This is why accusations of being ‘anti-trans’ are false. Because many of our discussion points on female single sex provisions include female people who have transgender identities, but not male people. Therefore not ‘anti’ trans, just female focused.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:14

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

Firstly, if you knew anything at all about this, you would know that we have no problem with females who transition to men. As they are females and hence no....threat.....to.....us. Do you need that explained any slower to you? It's apparent that you have absolutely no understanding of the issue at all and seem to think you have a 'gotcha' (trans men) that we somehow haven't had at least 4 thousand posters use on us before.

Secondly, my response was to a poster's comment. I was replying to their post. If saying (the basic common knowledge) that males are different than females and that females deserve single sex spaces is 'hate speech', then I suggest that is unhinged and you would be unhinged for saying basic biology and the rights of the female sex is 'hate speech'.

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 10:12

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:50

Um, the point you spectacularly missed is that being in a relationship with an individual from particular identity group doesn't necessarily align with a political ideology that's beneficial to them.

As the link showed Republicans are more attracted to trans porn than Democrats.

Edited

Agree and disagree. I don't think it necessarily aligns to a political party orientation - much has been written lately about how the alt-right and the alt-left overlap in weird ways - but I literally cannot imagine a trans person in 2025 being in a relationship with someone who was not supportive of trans ideology, and not just that but who didn't see "trans rights" as an overriding mission.

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

ThatBlackCat · 14/09/2025 09:49

No one is demonising 'trans' people. We have a hatred of males taking our rights away and entering our HARD WON single sex spaces, @LittleAlexHornesPocket .

MALES. Whether they are in a suit and tie, or in a dress. It's still MALE.

You really have absolutely no idea whatsoever what we are upset about. You think 'trans' people are a separate species or something, so therefore exempt from societal rules and expectations. They are MALE. Regardless of what they wear.

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:58

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 15/09/2025 09:43

Edited

Thanks for these. Online radicalisation and glorifying of violence is a real problem.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 09:57

NotMyNigelFarage · 15/09/2025 09:34

Lol, those are the widely accepted historical facts. Besides, how would you already know about them if they were false?

All this shit about grease fires is just twitter nonsense. It's pretty grim but it's not quite on the level of planting gunpowder in theatres packed full of innocent civilians.

If you already knew this, as you claim, then it's even more embarrassing that you'd think the actions of the trans lobby were comparable. Blush

If you can't understand the level of personal vicious hatred of women by men is on a far worse level than women disrupting society to get the vote (without hating men), then you are beyond help.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:55

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:54

I didn’t say it was, I chose not to engage with your “point”.

Yes, you chose to 'engage' with irrelevancy instead.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:54

I didn’t say it was, I chose not to engage with your “point”.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:44

I guess whether it’s relevant or not is for the court to determine, rather than you Howse.

Um, the point you spectacularly missed is that being in a relationship with an individual from particular identity group doesn't necessarily align with a political ideology that's beneficial to them.

As the link showed Republicans are more attracted to trans porn than Democrats.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:44

I guess whether it’s relevant or not is for the court to determine, rather than you Howse.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:41

Irrelevant. Whom you are sexually attracted to or in a relationship with isn't necessarily a reflection of your politics/personal gripes.

lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:41

Yes, I’m just saying that it’s possible he wasn’t involved before the event. He seems to have been afterwards though as the call and discord logs have been mentioned, and it wasn’t him who turned in Robinson.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 15/09/2025 09:37

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:33

Apparently the trans boyfriend is cooperating fully and was shocked by the shooting. So it’s quite possible that is not the motivation and I haven’t once claimed it is.

Of course he says he was shocked. What on earth else would anyone expect him to say? This means nothing.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:36

anyolddinosaur · 15/09/2025 09:31

At the moment most of the "discussion" is speculation with little basis in fact. It's known that he had republican parents and a trans room-mate and that the bullets had writing on them. Everything else - the talk of becoming more left wing, the room-mate being his lover - is speculation.

This seems like a deliberate distraction from the harassment of sex realist people by a disgraced former policeman who seems able to get police forces to be make clowns of themselves.

The governor of Utah was clear that the roommate and the suspect are in a romantic relationship.

NotMyNigelFarage · 15/09/2025 09:34

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 09:11

Um, I know all that (although I don't consider wikipedia more valid a source than fox news). As I said, get back to me when these suffragettes; wished to rape men until their insides ruptured, skinned them alive, burn them in a grease fire, sever their spines, etc etc. Until then your whataboutery is completely and utterly way beyond irrelevant.

Lol, those are the widely accepted historical facts. Besides, how would you already know about them if they were false?

All this shit about grease fires is just twitter nonsense. It's pretty grim but it's not quite on the level of planting gunpowder in theatres packed full of innocent civilians.

If you already knew this, as you claim, then it's even more embarrassing that you'd think the actions of the trans lobby were comparable. Blush

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:33

Apparently the trans boyfriend is cooperating fully and was shocked by the shooting. So it’s quite possible that is not the motivation and I haven’t once claimed it is.

anyolddinosaur · 15/09/2025 09:31

At the moment most of the "discussion" is speculation with little basis in fact. It's known that he had republican parents and a trans room-mate and that the bullets had writing on them. Everything else - the talk of becoming more left wing, the room-mate being his lover - is speculation.

This seems like a deliberate distraction from the harassment of sex realist people by a disgraced former policeman who seems able to get police forces to be make clowns of themselves.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:30

VoulezVouz · 15/09/2025 02:32

You were replying to this post:

”Because it’s sooooo convenient to their anti trans agenda. And it’s a such a massive leap that even Sam Beckett is giving it side eye.
it hasnt been proven in a court of law that he did it or what his motives are. Yet trial by media out in full force.
i have been vocal on this site about my reticence to embrace trans rights when they are overriding women rights, and the needs of vulnerable women, but even I think this kind of narrative weaving is beyond ridiculous. Trans people are just people, not an enemy other to dehumanise and find reasons to hate.
but at least were all distracted from Trumps stroke though eh?”

So no, not about the other guy. Why can’t you be honest for once? You’re also over the threads saying no-one should speculate, but here you saying the evidence is damning and the “partner” is trans - where really, no such evidence (of trans) exists. Maybe take a break.

“It hasn’t been proven in court that he did it” was what I was referring to. What do you think, “damning” was referring to and “innocent until proven guilty”. FWIW though, I think your selective acceptance of the information in the case that suits your own agenda is quite revealing.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:25

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 09:07

All those people saying "trans people are harmless, this is just about self-ID, suffragettes were more violent" etc - how closely have you been following changes in the actual trans community (vs keeping up with legal developments re: self-ID in the UK etc?)

That compendium from @ThatBlackCat is exactly right and that's what they say in public.

The Zizian cult mentioned above was mostly trans women, not just the leader - iirc also one female NB - and was a splinter group from some other group specifically set up because of perceived transphobia. They murdered 6 people.

There are growing communities on Reddit, streaming platforms, discord etc which are explicitly about helping trans people to arm themselves against the "genocide". Just doing a random search for trans guns - I'm sure somewhere on the farms there is a 1000-page compendium - I read one post about a trans woman interviewed for a magazine about buying his first handgun, and in the MONTH or so between the interview and the article coming out his collection had "grown a lot".

“‘They’re going to fear us no matter what,’ she said. ‘So let the fear come from a place of reality.’

Another one compared it to freeing themselves from chattel slavery (?!):

"The crimes of this guilty land can never be purged away but with blood."

All these subreddits link to private discords where they presumably go a little further about their plans. This is what they are happy to say in public.

I'm not saying every trans identifying person is a murderer, obviously; I'm saying that TRA / trantifa groups are explicitly the radicalisation pathway and it's not just that "some murderers happen to be trans".

A statistically insignificant group with statistically insignificant threats is hardly the same thing.

On line culture is packed to the brim with blustery threats that don't materialise into mass shootings because certain conditions need to be met as in severe mental health problems & gun access. That is to say not every 'radicalised' individual becomes a shooter. If they did the streets would be full of them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:25

VoulezVouz · 15/09/2025 03:19

I’m specifically referring the claims of ‘trans’ - not the shooting itself. You may want to read my post again.

Given the Utah Governor is Republican, and so is quite partisan, any claims he makes at this point should be taken carefully. I would say the same if it were a Democrat Governor suggesting the opposite.

Most news outlets reporting the trans angle are right-wing.

Yes, because you read my post wrong as @TalkingintheDark said. You “may want to read it again”. Stop projecting stuff onto me. You’ve done it on multiple threads now.

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