Charlie Kirk assassin was living with trans roommate

I agree and disagree.

I think that in the UK we have a small but significant number of mainly younger people who could reasonably be called "hard left" or "far left". They seem to often exist on the fringes of labour or in the greens / SNP / Plaid. The support taxing the rich, greater equality, and they support "social justice" (which means injustice - anti white racism, TQ+ misogyny and homophobia etc etc).

On the other hand when they protest they like wearing masks, and all black and one could easily mistake them for fascists, even though they claim to be anti-fascist. Their ideology almost entirely ignores class struggle (as most of the are middle or upper class) and is academic and anti-worker. They are also highly individualistic and ignore society in the sort of way that would impress Thatcher until she realized they had gone 10 times further than she would support.

That ex undercover chap did at least point out that it’s not necessarily the cause that concerns law enforcement agencies, but the tactics used and crimes committed supposedly in the name of that cause.

That's very important. The FBI under Hoover was very effective against extremism - we hear about their actions against the left, but they also completely crushed the Klan. They did, it's true, go way overboard with the Cointelpro strategy of infiltrating and disrupting groups who might have had extremist ideologies but who had entirely peaceful methods.

That's been the basis for a lot of the mythology that's grown up on the American left, and not only the far left but the centre left, who will wang on endlessly about the Hollywood blacklist while airbrushing the fact that there was significant violence from far left groups, that Communist Party members were heavily involved in espionage etc.

Kash Patel will be worth watching because he's argued for years that the FBI was far too heavily involved in politics and should really get out of the business of surveilling activism and back into the business of solving crime. I don't know how he'll jump.

It's even trickier if we're talking about decentralised and networked extremism. And it might only be a small number of violent extremists, but they're swimming in the sea of a community of people with lots of mental health issues, where violent rhetoric has become completely normalised.

I agree. Anecdotally I’ve seen a lot of trans identified males on social media who say they were MRAs (I imagine the incel type) before they transitioned and “became feminists” 🙄

I think condemning the behaviour of an individual within a group is the opposite of demonising the whole group.
I also think that vulnerable teenagers/neuro diverse adults falling into online rabbit holes where they end up being convinced the world hates them/that there is some huge existential threat they need to defeat is part of the trans issue but it's also much wider than the trans issue. Some of them seem to have gone on a path where the were very right wing at one point, the left wing, then trans, then very right wing again. But always persecuted. Always more aware of the dangers of the world than "normies". The fact that this was being encouraged by adults rather than addressed is really unhealthy but I don't think it's only trans ideology that can do this.

Very good points.

It’s certainly not the L! Except of course that the AGP Trantifa types identify as lesbians.

It’s TQ terrorism really but the TQ have thoroughly glommed onto the LGB despite the efforts of sensible LGB people to push back against it.

That ex undercover chap did at least point out that it’s not necessarily the cause that concerns law enforcement agencies, but the tactics used and crimes committed supposedly in the name of that cause.

Agree. Despite the availability of guns most Americans are not attempting political assassinations, and it's difficult to understand what has been gained out of this one. Trump has tried to make hay out of it, but it won't change anyone's mind, and you would have to go down a very strange conspiracy hole to think Trump wanted this.

I don't know why other people might think it's relevant, but for me, I would like to push back against the framing that women's rights are something to be sympathetically balanced against trans rights, with both of those parties being just different groups in society who need to have their needs met and we have to come up with a compromise.

I understand where it comes from - the Equality Act framing of different protected characteristics being balanced, etc. Like calmly and rationally negotiating whether pushchairs or wheelchairs should get priority on buses.

But I think it breaks down when a significant minority of people in a community are insanely, graphically violent. Vicious GFM-style fantasies being normalised, not just death threats but graphic descriptions of torture, arming themselves, egging on each other's paranoid delusions that the whole world wants to genocide them - all this among a community with significant comorbities with serious mental illness, even if you don't think transgender identity itself is one. I think there is a lot that is normalised within these communities which is outside the bounds of civilised society.

I'm not saying every trans person is this, at all. I do wonder whether the rhetorical insistence that "we're not trying to demonise them, we just want them out of our spaces" - while I see the political justification for it - leads us sometimes to be blind about behaviour that we should condemn, and be wary of, and treat as a warning sign of potential further escalation.

It's a different type of force teaming isn't it...

And as far as the trans threats go... Even though TRAs have been sending a lot of threats and getting away with frankly way more stuff then anyone else would, Glimmers trial showed its actually a really small number of very odd very emmeshed people that seem to have been involved in his ongoing drama. I hope the publicity opens some people's eyes. But even I was a bit surprised how few people were able to cause that much trouble. So it's not even all trans people (many of whom are quite vulnerable or are very young) just this small knot of crazy.

It seems to me that some of these extremists use the language and aesthetics of Marxism etc in the same way they use the language and aesthetics of Nazism - they don’t really know or care that much about the histories and realities of those movements they are just picking controversial stuff that upsets their parents/mainstream society and gives them righteous excuses for plotting violent attacks on people they perceive as having wronged them in some way.

On this board there are quite a wide range of posters from people who are old school conservatives (or would ,broadly fit into a right wing box) all the way to very left wing radical feminists. (And people who don't care about that stuff at all). They just happen to be GC. As far as I am aware none of us want to shoot each other. So arguments that "the left" are just itching to pull the trigger when they don't get their way don't make much sense. It's likely it was a weird motivation for the murder of Charlie Kirk which was awful. The rise in political violence is awful. My super left wing neighbour does not secretly want to kill me because we disagreed about capital gains tax.the last time we talked.

The phrase, ‘LGBT terrorism’ made me sit up. The interviewee uses it at one point.

It made me realise that although the word ‘terrorism’ has come up when discussing violent TRA threats and attacks on GC women we have never called it ‘LGBT terrorism’; it has always been very obvious it’s the T part not the LGB part doing this.

What you call 'alphabet soup ideology' is more right wing in origin than anything else - it's rooted in the idea that the rights of the individual are more important than the rights of the group. The deference to identify reflects the same attitudes that protected the British aristocracy for so many centuries. Don't speak out of turn. Women, know your place.

Goodness knows what is going on in Canada, but the UK's commitment to evidence based healthcare is rooted in the structure of the NHS. On the other hand, the American healthcare system is driven by profit and resists regulation.

The EDI training that got NHS Fife in such a pickle didn't have anything to do with equality, diversity or inclusivity. The goal was just to protect the interests of a particular tribe of people.

Are you aware that the Communist Party is the only political party on the record as being GC in the UK as far as I know.

Are you aware that Marxists are materialists, engaged with the real world? (I suspect many of those newer to left wing politics who claim to be Marxists but who espouse gender ideology haven't really understood/ read Marx. Just a hunch!)

There are many left wing GC feminists.

To equate gender ideology with being hard left is a massive oversimplification.

Yes, most of the left-leaning parties have come out for gender ideology, but not without an internal fight. The leadership may have gone that route but they never asked the rank and file. There were a substantial number of GC people within those parties who were against the policies. Same as all the other parties - except the Communists who rejected gender ideology.

Obviously everyone is different, but if TRs room-mate was trans or a trans rights activist then it is incredibly unlikely that TR didn't support trans ideology 100%. Irrespective of whether they were in a relationship.

Trans ideologues believe in decapitating or raping "TERFs" so of course murdering a public figure who is "anti-trans" is OBLIGATORY in order to be a moral person.

TR was killed because he had conversations, more than his beliefs. Trans ideologues cannot kill every TERF but they can go after all of the famous names who ignored the demand to have #nodebate

LGBTQIA- Alphabet Soup Ideology/ the west is just being taught hate itself through extreme socialist bordering on Communist/ Marxist views, DEI, all of this is leaving such negative views in the heads of todays youth.

Extreme socialist ideologies like what - the NHS?

You seem to be confusing two very different countries with vastly different cultures.

In my opinion the parents aren't to blame, in America the 2nd amendment allows for the right to bare arms, gun crime rose under the Biden administration, this came with the introduction of extreme ideologies and BLM/ unfair sentencing around gun/ crime, look at what happened to that poor girl "iryna zarutska" the poor Ukrainian girl stabbed on the train and left by all in her black community to die, no one came to her aid, but DEI allowed these mentally unstable people to go free after repeated offences, we need harder laws and we need to get extreme socialist ideologies out of our kids schools, racism works in both directions and white kids are being made to feel like they owe the world something and deserve to be hated, this is what is radicalising them, it's happened in the USA and it's happening here in the UK, the education system in the west need deep reform.

Thanks for you not so terribly measured dose of propaganda. Welcome to MN, what brought you here…?

Really interesting video, interview with a former investigator who has spent time in Utah monitoring white supremacist groups. He described how the authorities might investigate wider groups in detail.

I think it's so funny how the left advocate for society without guns, then when they lose the argument around extreme ideologies and socialist/ communist views they're the first to pick one up, their last resort is to shut down the conversation by pulling a trigger, it's always the left who turn out the most aggressive.

Social media left by the men in various gaming and other groups is going to be useful evidence. They didn't appear to do a very good job of deleting their posts or hiding their online profiles.

Have the women highlighted the right thing with the wrong way, words, tones, methods again?

This is really sad, but why is this irrelevant to feminism?

The astronomical authorities also downgraded Pluto to no longer being a planet. The indignity!