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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Schools toilet policy

42 replies

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 11:15

Still getting messages that pupils can use the toilet of their choice.

In a 11-18 school (or any school), this isn’t lawful is it? We have allocated gender neutral toilets (quite rightly so) but the other toilets should be single sex shouldn’t they?

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Leafstamp · 12/09/2025 20:18

Have you chased up the SLT member? It may have just slipped their mind or not be a priority (wrongly!)

You could ask for a meeting and/or you could copy in the safeguarding lead when you chase up.

Merrymouse · 11/09/2025 19:31

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 11:24

Getting annoyed as the policy is peppered with cis and afab/amab and a claim that trans people are more likely to be victims of violent crime and murder than ‘cisgendered’ people. This is a policy drawn up by the student body and I’m uncomfortable that we as staff are meant to sign it.

Leaving aside the legalities and just commenting on the logic of their policy, if everyone is using the toilets of their choice, cis/afab/amab/trans is completely irrelevant, because they aren't asking people to choose toilets on any basis other than personal preference.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/09/2025 19:05

WelshMoth · 11/09/2025 19:03

I’m nervous about doing this on a very public forum but that’s not to say that I will shy away from tackling it.

Completely fair, I just mean we could help with writing whatever official notice you need to write

WelshMoth · 11/09/2025 19:03

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/09/2025 11:35

Fantastic. Are you able to share the full text of the policy here please? Or link to it?

I’m nervous about doing this on a very public forum but that’s not to say that I will shy away from tackling it.

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WelshMoth · 11/09/2025 19:00

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 11/09/2025 11:42

So they are choosing not to follow the recommendations in the Cass report either?

Fantastic.

Seems that way.

But again, when the Welsh government have ignored the Cass report and are blatantly ignoring the law, it empowers invidual schools/other services to follow suit.

I just don’t understand how they can get away with this when it is in breach of the law.

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 11/09/2025 11:42

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 15:27

Thanks everyone.
Yes, I’m in Wales.
It’s being passed off as ‘staff training’ that we must sign in order to prove that we have undergone the LGBT+ training but it’s titled as Staff Policy on LGBT+.

It has some really pertinent points re making our lessons inclusive to include all types of family dynamics, homophobic and transphobic bullying, but the toilets clause and the throwing around of stats to demonstrate how the trans community are victims is throwing me a little as well as the very frequent use of cis. It’s also concerning me that we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record.

So they are choosing not to follow the recommendations in the Cass report either?

Fantastic.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 11/09/2025 11:40

The school toilet policy needs to comply with the law.

Why is the school taking legal advice from teenagers?

This situation needs some adults to enter the room and take control, and you are an adult.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/09/2025 11:35

WelshMoth · 10/09/2025 17:32

I’m prepared to pursue this. We had our rather large swingle sex toilets changed into unisex toilets after Covid (created riots, HUGE safeguarding concerns, intimidating for girls, concerning for larger and older boys and young men who didn't want to share these spaces with girls (some of them tiny and very nervous) and I had a right battle to change them back to single sex. This allowance (albeit a single sentence in a policy) just feels like a big fuck off to the law and to common sense and safeguarding.

I’m prepared to do this, yes.

Fantastic. Are you able to share the full text of the policy here please? Or link to it?

WelshMoth · 10/09/2025 17:32

I’m prepared to pursue this. We had our rather large swingle sex toilets changed into unisex toilets after Covid (created riots, HUGE safeguarding concerns, intimidating for girls, concerning for larger and older boys and young men who didn't want to share these spaces with girls (some of them tiny and very nervous) and I had a right battle to change them back to single sex. This allowance (albeit a single sentence in a policy) just feels like a big fuck off to the law and to common sense and safeguarding.

I’m prepared to do this, yes.

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SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 10/09/2025 07:08

WelshMoth · 10/09/2025 05:33

I teach.
It’s a comprehensive school.

Are you prepared to take this further personally?

Or do you need to do something anonymously?

WelshMoth · 10/09/2025 05:48

I should have added that it’s a state school. The SLT lead who I emailed my concerns to has not got back to me.

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WelshMoth · 10/09/2025 05:33

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 09/09/2025 09:23

What's your role here? Are you a teacher or a pupil or a parent? Are you on the Governors?

is the school an academy or local authority?

What is your standing to take this further?

I teach.
It’s a comprehensive school.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/09/2025 09:32

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 15:27

Thanks everyone.
Yes, I’m in Wales.
It’s being passed off as ‘staff training’ that we must sign in order to prove that we have undergone the LGBT+ training but it’s titled as Staff Policy on LGBT+.

It has some really pertinent points re making our lessons inclusive to include all types of family dynamics, homophobic and transphobic bullying, but the toilets clause and the throwing around of stats to demonstrate how the trans community are victims is throwing me a little as well as the very frequent use of cis. It’s also concerning me that we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record.

If you feel it's unsafe career wise to point out the illegality, parental alienation and safeguarding breaching aspect of this nonsense OP, then suggest you leak it to the press. The Telegraph, Mail & Times are particularly hot on exposing institutions prioritising trans demands over their legal responsibilities to safeguard children - and as for lying to parents ....
If you'd like some names of journalists, just say.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 09/09/2025 09:23

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 11:15

Still getting messages that pupils can use the toilet of their choice.

In a 11-18 school (or any school), this isn’t lawful is it? We have allocated gender neutral toilets (quite rightly so) but the other toilets should be single sex shouldn’t they?

What's your role here? Are you a teacher or a pupil or a parent? Are you on the Governors?

is the school an academy or local authority?

What is your standing to take this further?

AnSolas · 08/09/2025 19:09

But I just wanted to highlight the complete batshittery of this: "we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record."

This is students telling the adults to lie to the student's parents.

The school should not be advocating that people in positions of trust tell lies.

The school should not be advocating that people in positions of trust lie to the people who have given them delegated authority to educate their children.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/guidance-on-promoting-british-values-in-schools-published

Publishing the guidance today, Lord Nash said:

A key part of our plan for education is to ensure children become valuable and fully rounded members of society who treat others with respect and tolerance, regardless of background.

We want every school to promote the basic British values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance for those of different faiths and beliefs.

This ensures young people understand the importance of respect and leave school fully prepared for life in modern Britain.

Examples of the understanding and knowledge pupils are expected to learn include:

  • an understanding of how citizens can influence decision-making through the democratic process
  • an understanding that the freedom to hold other faiths and beliefs is protected in law
  • an acceptance that people having different faiths or beliefs to oneself (or having none) should be accepted and tolerated, and should not be the cause of prejudicial or discriminatory behaviour
  • an understanding of the importance of identifying and combatting discrimination
children reading an atlas

Guidance on promoting British values in schools published

Strengthened guidance on improving the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of pupils.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/guidance-on-promoting-british-values-in-schools-published

FrippEnos · 08/09/2025 18:50

Find out who "lead" the student body.
I can pretty much guarantee it will be either a member of the SLT that has bought in completely or a member of staff that runs the LGBT etc. clubs.
You need to be pushing on this through safeguarding and even deep diving into which students "wrote" the policy as the student body must reflect the whole and not be cherry picked.

DuesToTheDirt · 08/09/2025 18:28

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 15:27

Thanks everyone.
Yes, I’m in Wales.
It’s being passed off as ‘staff training’ that we must sign in order to prove that we have undergone the LGBT+ training but it’s titled as Staff Policy on LGBT+.

It has some really pertinent points re making our lessons inclusive to include all types of family dynamics, homophobic and transphobic bullying, but the toilets clause and the throwing around of stats to demonstrate how the trans community are victims is throwing me a little as well as the very frequent use of cis. It’s also concerning me that we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record.

The toilets part is clearly illegal, and as others have said, it's crazy to have the students writing policy.

But I just wanted to highlight the complete batshittery of this: "we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record."

So everyone has to go against their beliefs. People who don't believe in socially transing children have to lie and use the wrong-sex prounouns in front of the child. People who do believe in socially transing children have to use the correct-sex pronouns in front of the parents - which is probably also in front of the child, who will often be present.

(And isn't socially-transing children now frowned-upon anyway?)

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 08/09/2025 18:12

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 17:33

It’s so tricky. When the WAG are facilitating this, it feels almost impossible to challenge. How can a government bend this around law? I don’t get it.

Politely, in a rush dog walking, It’s not tricky and it’s not impossible to challenge. You have the law, facts and child safgeuardi g on your side. You can and indeed must challenge it.

Biscofffan · 08/09/2025 17:46

Agreed. It's a very big job for one person to take on. I think alerting SLT to SC judgement and safeguarding concerns would be a start at least.

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 17:33

It’s so tricky. When the WAG are facilitating this, it feels almost impossible to challenge. How can a government bend this around law? I don’t get it.

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Grammarnut · 08/09/2025 17:27

Rednorth · 08/09/2025 13:13

I really don't agree with that statement.

Whilst there maybe some lay members/ branches who are overly supportive of trans rights, that does not mean there wouldn't be the support, especially from paid staff members.

I am a (mercifully retired) member. Afaik the NEU is fully paid up TWAW.

Biscofffan · 08/09/2025 15:47

The policy of automatic affirmation and not making parents aware comes from Welsh LAs and also the WG LGBTQ+ Action Plan. The Wales Centre for Public Policy produced, in January 2025, a Rapid Evidence Review to inform guidance for schools to support trans young people. It was based mainly on 'research' from the US and dismissed the Cass Review in one sentence. Affirmation all the way. Totally biased with no consideration of safeguarding or the requirements for single sex facilities which has since been emphasised by the Supreme Court judgement in April.
Well done for taking your concerns forward WelshMoth and good luck 💪

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 08/09/2025 15:46

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 11:25

I’m 100% in support of the LGBT+ community in this school but the wording has to be lawful, doesn’t it?

You have to put a stop to this NOW.

Toilets: The law is clear — schools must provide single-sex toilets for pupils over 8 (Education (School Premises) Regulations 1999; Welsh regs are the same). Gender-neutral toilets can be provided in addition, but not instead of single-sex. “Use whichever you like” is unlawful.

Pronouns / secrecy from parents: KCSIE (2024) is explicit — schools should not conceal information from parents unless there’s a clear safeguarding risk. Telling staff to use one set of pronouns with parents and another behind their back is not allowed.

Policy wording: “Cis/AFAB/AMAB” are contested political terms, not legal categories. Staff cannot be compelled to adopt them. Schools must remain politically impartial under the Education Act.

Stats about violence: Irrelevant to school toilets, and misleading when inserted into a safeguarding policy. The Equality Act protects everyone from bullying — no group gets special treatment outside the law.

Safeguarding: Mixing male and female pupils in toilets/changing rooms puts girls at risk of loss of dignity, privacy and safeguarding failures. This is the opposite of what KCSIE requires.

Staff signatures: Forcing staff to “sign” a student-written policy that contradicts the law has no legal basis. If anything, it puts staff personally at risk of breaching their statutory duties.

In short: keep the good parts (anti-bullying, inclusive families) but bin the illegal/unlawful clauses.

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 15:27

Thanks everyone.
Yes, I’m in Wales.
It’s being passed off as ‘staff training’ that we must sign in order to prove that we have undergone the LGBT+ training but it’s titled as Staff Policy on LGBT+.

It has some really pertinent points re making our lessons inclusive to include all types of family dynamics, homophobic and transphobic bullying, but the toilets clause and the throwing around of stats to demonstrate how the trans community are victims is throwing me a little as well as the very frequent use of cis. It’s also concerning me that we are being instructed to use pronouns of the pupils choice even if the parents aren’t aware, unless parents are present in which case, we revert to what’s officially on record.

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deadpan · 08/09/2025 15:19

WelshMoth · 08/09/2025 12:12

Thank you. Yes - I’ve already spoken to my Union rep who bizarrely sees no red flags here. I’ve emailed my lead on SLT to query this too.

Not surprised from a Union unfortunately