Yes, you're right it is.

Yes - how can someone who was supposed to be a friend be both so mind bogglingly ignorant and oblivious of your feelings? PCOS is not at all uncommon and the one thing every person with if has in common is that she’s a woman. Me too, I’m furious on your behalf.

Yes, I’ve heard that nonsensical rendition of the phrase too, it’s not a sensible rule for women to believe everything men tell them.

'It's all their fault'…..

👍

@OP it may be best for your blood pressure to ignore Howsitgoing

It’s so disappointing to find out just how many intelligent women have fallen for the oh so carefully and strategically curated trans discourse but realise that pretty much only MN has enabled women to push back against these harmful and retrograde stereotypes.

Otherwise the whole bloody internet is awash with bekind / most marginalised / vulnerable / oppressed group ever (only TW, never TM). Naice people automatically align with bekind. I’d probably have been in the camp ish but for it coming too close to home.

One friend surprised me with TWAW and two colleagues that I really like. So I just do not discuss it with them. There’s actually precious little reporting in MSM so all the news reported here about transgressions including assaults, awards, refuges, the frantic parents with vulnerable children going down a horrific route of drugs and surgery, and all the employment tribunals and lawsuits just hardly gets a mention. The empirical papers on the negative impacts never discussed and how countries starting earlier down the gender path turning back. All of that never in the main public conversation. So many women never hear the full extent of the impact of gender ideology. Until and unless they do, they’re very likely to remain bekind.

What a load of old cobblers.

I suspect the conflict with your friends is rooted in your fundamental approach to life which appears to be one of over simplification.

Firstly, the quote by American poet Maya Angelou:

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

emphasises the importance of paying attention to someone's actions and words, as they reveal their true character and intentions. It's mean't as a warning not to dismiss obvious character flaws often revealed initially that might come back to bite you if you continue with the relationship. Hence it's often quoted in dealing with domestic violence relationships.

Secondly, your friends aren't so much disbelieving that you are not 'CIS' (a woman who was born female), rather they are suggesting a 'woman' is more than their reproductive characteristics in that they have particular behavioural, psychological & cultural associations more associated with their sex. And the word 'sex' denoting characteristic distinctions between males & females includes
not just reproductive distinctions but behavioural ones hence trans identification to the opposite reproductive sex they were born.

Now you might say males & females share personality traits therefore just having traits more common to the other sex doesn't make you a man or woman but that in essence is a personal opinion that's influenced by your individual values & perceptions about reality. Because both reproductive & behavioural characteristics distinguish males from females, an individual can identify with or with one more than the other or interpret one being more defining more than the other. Ultimately this is a personal subjective choice .

Lastly in an ironic way you have shown your friends 'who you are' in your personal values on how you define yourself which you are certainly entitled to AND that you might have a tendency for oversimplification that they ought to be now more aware of.

Anyhow, here's a video of Maya & Oprah explaining the relevance of the quote.

https://www.oprah.com/oprahs-lifeclass/when-people-show-you-who-they-are-believe-them-video

I have one group of friends that includes a women with a niece who has a trans identity. When we get together, and the issue comes up, some members of the group talk rubbish as they think it’s showing support. I know they don’t believe what they are saying (we have discussed the issues at other times) but they do believe that it is helpful and supportive for this aunt to hear it. All of us in the group would love things to be better for the niece and her family - we have different beliefs about what helps and what hinders. I remain quiet as there is no benefit from my interjections at that point in time. They all know my views.

How dare they tell you that you aren't really a woman because of PCOS, but simultaneously tell you that any man that says he's a woman totally is.

That is offensive and illogical, there is nothing about PCOS that can move you out of the woman category, under any batshit belief system, that doesn't also move all these men out of it as well.

If you want to stay friends, you have to avoid the topic, but if they ever bring it up again just reiterate how offensive it is that they stated you weren't a woman after you had said you were.

If you imagine how hard it would be to change yourself to believe that sex change is possible, it's even harder to change someone else's mind.
They have to work out the truth and haven't yet reflected on the facts, while they've read some nonsense that must have been written as though it was the truth.
Unless their contradictions impact them (rather than just you) they may choose to live with delusion to fit in and to "be kind".
Back away and save your sanity!

So sorry, OP, that's really misery making. They sound very ill-informed and so rude, too, especially knowing the things you have been through. The tide is beginning to turn and maybe they will come back to sanity. Remember they were friends once but not any more and go on with your life. 💐

A true friend wouldn’t be hurtful and judgemental. Friends support each other through difficult times and celebrate each other’s successes. A friend is someone that even if you don’t agree on something, they’ll not try to force you to agree with them nor ridicule you for your opinions.

My friends are a great bunch of people. We don’t agree on everything but we respect one another.

I’m so sorry about your situation but don't think of them as friends anymore. Think of them as just people that you used to know.

The tide is turning, but not quickly enough for you OP - I'm so sorry you were stranded on a sandbar with people who used to be friends. It's very sad to see people you once liked and respected get carried away by genderwoo.

I feel for you as I too have lost dear friends this way. I’m trying to come to terms with it.

Obviously you know you're not what your ignorant friends call intersex, OP, but how could anyone be that if they have PCOS, when the O stands for ovaries?

It's become apparent over the years in this war that just because someone has a string of degrees doesn't mean they've got any common sense.

Sorry @IfSomeoneTellsYouWhoTheyAre that's really upsetting and offensive, I'm also sending you an un-mumsnetty hug.

There's definitely been a shift in the general perception of gender ideology, a few years back people would look at me like I'd grown a second head when we discussed it. They fell into two camps, the be kind-ers and the one's that thought I was a tin foil hat wearing loon, the be kind camp was by far the most frustrating and upsetting.

I hope they come to their senses soon and you get an apology for the weird and IMO shitty comments about you somehow being both Cis and intersex, especially from such close friends who know everything you've been through

Thank goodness for MN, as a PP said. The sensible, knowledgeable, and hilarious women here have helped me to deal with this, it's such a good resource for information and support when everyone else is shouting you down for being a bigot, or seems to have wilfully switched off their brains to #BeKind.

Edited for spelling

It’s completely barking mad. I can’t believe it’s unacceptable to say “humans can’t change sex.” My closest friend is full on TWAW. I keep my views quiet, but I’m so sad about it because I can’t stand to hear her go on so we don’t talk so much anymore.

You can buy them each a copy of Helen's book for Christmas and wrap it in the SC judgement pointing out the law.

I’m so sorry - hope you’re ok. Your posts make perfect sense and i am so sorry you weren’t heard by people you know and trust. Xxx

I have just come back from a weekend away and I did not raise the subject but it was talked about. Pleasantly surprised all were TWAM. I am not sure the view was the same 12 months ago 🤔.
Big hugs and look after yourself. They are delusional

I thank the heavens for MN tbh. Having been in a similar situation I think id have lost my marbles if it wasn't for the folk on here.

I'm really sorry OP. That sounds incredibly rough. Well done for keeping your mind intact! 😬