Gay men and surrogacy - the new “be kind”?

I don't agree with that. Adoption agencies actually did studies and found gay couples made better parents than average.

The OPs post isn't about men being fathers it's about paid surrogacy arrangements from abroad.

I don't agree with the concerns about surrogacy being homophobic.

Where you get the gushing comments is usually wealthy gay men like Tom Daley who go abroad to buy wombs and children.

The OP's point was there is a parallel about wanting to seem progressive (aka trans rights) without considering the impact on others.

If you think that British gay men have the right to have genetic children then by all means volunteer to be a surrogate for them.

Or campaign for paid surrogates to be legal for British women. But not for it to be legal to bring these babies in from abroad which is colonialism frankly.

It’s so sad. A baby need a mum and a dad not two dads or two mums. It’s awful that we allow this

Children are human beings with human rights, of course they are. But those rights aren't being stripped because a gay couple is caring for them instead of a woman.

Weird that you made surrogacy an anti-gay-man thing @Tootingbec. Surely the problems are the same if anyone uses surrogacy?

Once the child is born, then I'd err on the side of kindness. There is no benefit to the child to grow up in a world that judges them and their parents.

You're talking about children as though they're consumer items that everyone should be entitled to. Children are human beings with human rights. They should never be taken from their mothers at birth except in extreme circumstances.

What bothers me most about this is, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of paid surrogacy, couples are being praised for going abroad for something illegal in this country. I.e. you can have a surrogate but not legally offer to pay for one beyond reasonable expenses.

Is this okay because it's other country's women's wombs. It's a bit colonial isn't it?!

I don't think this should be allowed, or at least I don't think these surrogate children should be accepted as British citizens if that makes sense.

You're not wrong! It just smack of entitlement 'we want a baby so we'll rent a woman's womb and buy one from her' oh and we don't want a brown baby so we'll buy some other woman's eggs to do it with. Utterly gross and entitled. Poor babies.

And surrogacy is not just about bodily autonomy and a women’s right to decide what she does with her body, it is also about what is in the best interest of the child.

That’s it for me. I couldn’t imagine being the child born to a surrogate. What an absolute mind-fuck. I don’t think it’s fair to do that to a child.

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I haven't proved anything about double standards, where did I "applaud" gay couples or shout anyone down for being homophobic? I simply pointed out that if you feel surrogacy is exploiting women's bodies, then it seems logical to be more offended by other women using surrogates.

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If none of the ethical ways for a person/couple of any combination of the two sexes to have a child suit them, that doesn’t give them a right to use an unethical one.

Gay men should not be discriminated against, obviously. But nor should they be privileged.

if you think surrogacy is ok for anyone then it’s ok for everyone. Maybe you do
But if you don’t think it’s ok for one set of people then it isn’t for anyone else either. This, I think, is the OPs position (and mine) - it’s not ok for straight couples, so it’s not ok for gay ones either.

I'm not convinced the majority of people are "applauding" gay couples for having a baby through surrogacy. Maybe on LinkedIn, because no one wants to show an ounce of prejudice on a site where their boss and future employers can openly see it.

I think people are possibly less critical of gay couples for it because, lets be honest, their options for having a family are more limited.

I don't think surrogacy is inherently abhorrent - if I didn't have children of my own (as pregnancy and birth obviously comes with risk) I'd consider doing it for someone. I appreciate that it can be exploitative when it's women desperate for money pushed to doing it as a last resort, but imo that should be down to lawmakers to prevent, not desperate would be parents.

I do agree with you and it’s clear that surrogacy has many issues for biological mother and baby. I don’t agree with it in the vast majority of cases
My only query about it all is that, fertility issues aside, gay men are the only
couples who cannot produce their own families naturally. Not many people seem to have the same concerns about babies born to lesbian couples, maybe via sperm donations. These children also live their lives with no knowledge of one of their biological parents. I know it is NOT the same thing but the question does bother me none the less.
Not quite sure what the answer is.

What nonsense. And what's worse, there is a definite undercurrent of homophobia running through your comments. Not sure why you're being so hostile to gay people.

Do you think that infertile straight couples should have to share their child with a fertile woman? Why should any couple, gay or straight, be forced into co-parenting just to have a child?

Adoption can be very difficult and isn't suitable for many people.

Thank goodness people like you don't get let anywhere near actual decision making.

Would you apply the same logic to, for example, someone who wants to pay someone to donate part of their liver to them? It grows back, they’re an adult who can make their own decisions and has their own agency, they’ll be financially compensated. Plus they’d be saving a life.
I don’t mean this as any kind of trick question, I’m genuinely interested in whether you’d apply the same logic to buying organs (I chose liver because it grows back if you just donate a bit, and I’m talking about a commercial arrangement because obviously you can donate to a loved one already).

Child trafficking.

I guess you didn’t read the OPs post just above yours …you’ve proved her point re double standards.

A big majority of couples who use a surrogate are straight.

It's aful no matter who does it. There is however an important element that related specifically to gay couples.

The main argument people will make about why it is fine for heterosexual couples is that it is just so mean to deny them a baby when they have fertility issues. A lot of people see through that though.

But when it comes to gay couples, people accuse those against surrogacy of being homophobic and that equality means that surrogacy must be an option. It becomes an equal rights debate.

A lot more people are fooled by that bs and others may not be fooled but are too scared of being declared homophobic to say anything.