Feminist activist sent to prison for ‘Allah is lesbian’ T-shirt - Morocco

I’m torn.
Her sentence is ridiculous. The regime oppressive. I have become fussy about where I holiday, and somewhere I’d be arrested for things I can’t control would be off the list. (I realise she wasn’t on holiday).

CLAW comes into it though.

A lot of those same people thought Dubai is a very immoral society in general, and I suspect that is part of the reason they were unsympathetic. Kind of, if you go vacation in a place like that, shit will happen.

It was also over-shadowed by the fact that the girls mother instigated the whole thing and she was not from Dubai, she lived in the UK (at least IIRC she did.)

Yes, I'd agree w that. I didn't think it was a v pleasant way to do (didn't like the things Charlie Hebedo did mocking other religions either). But they definitely have valid points, as the terrible reaction showed all too well....

On the Dubai case, I still think some people seemed worryingly unsympathetic. I see what you mean about places like Singapore.

Because it doesn't have a body nor a sex. It's like saying it's orange.

I have travelled solo to many Mslem countries (including Morocco, Egypt, Iran and Syria) and was always careful to obey the dress and cultural codes. As a non believer I am still interested in religion and in discussing it with people I meet, but always respectfully. Showing disrespect to the religion and government of an absolute country is never wise.

Why cant that Deity be a Lesbian?

If humans are a reflection of that Deity is why cant it be a belief?

You think she was being an "asshole" and offensive? Isn't it more offensive that homosexuality is illegal in Morocco because of religious beliefs? Isn't it more offensive people can be jailed for 2.5 years for a belief?

I'm disgusted by the attitudes on this thread.

Funnily enough I've just seen a play entitled "The Last Stand of Mary Whitehouse". She sued Gay Times magazine in the 70s for blasphemy, saying Jesus was gay. This os the exact same thing, 50 years later and women are still pearl clutching about it.

Blasphemy is WORDS. Regimes against homosexuality and free speech are actually harming people and you're sticking up for them!

I have travelled solo to many Mslem countries (including Morocco, Egypt, Iran and Syria) and was always careful to obey the dress and cultural codes. As a non believer I am still interested in religion and in discussing it with people I meet, but always respectfully. Showing disrespect to the religion and government of an absolute country is never wise.

No need to apologise.

I'm autistic so the way I type things doesn't always come across how I mean it to.

I see, OK. I was probs being too harsh- sorry.
There was an odd wave of posts at the start chastising her for protesting which got my back up.

That was something I picked out and commented on.

She knew she would offend people.

I didn't really understand, though, why you first commented on whether she was offending Islam- with no word, however, on her courage in challenging these unjust laws in Morocco.

Where did I say that?

So you think blasphemy laws are OK?

You think she was being an "asshole" and offensive? Isn't it more offensive that homosexuality is illegal in Morocco because of religious beliefs? Isn't it more offensive people can be jailed for 2.5 years for a belief?

I'm disgusted by the attitudes on this thread.

Funnily enough I've just seen a play entitled "The Last Stand of Mary Whitehouse". She sued Gay Times magazine in the 70s for blasphemy, saying Jesus was gay. This os the exact same thing, 50 years later and women are still pearl clutching about it.

Blasphemy is WORDS. Regimes against homosexuality and free speech are actually harming people and you're sticking up for them!

You think she was being an "asshole" and offensive? Isn't it more offensive that homosexuality is illegal in Morocco because of religious beliefs? Isn't it more offensive people can be jailed for 2.5 years for a belief?

I'm disgusted by the attitudes on this thread.

Funnily enough I've just seen a play entitled "The Last Stand of Mary Whitehouse". She sued Gay Times magazine in the 70s for blasphemy, saying Jesus was gay. This os the exact same thing, 50 years later and women are still pearl clutching about it.

Blasphemy is WORDS. Regimes against homosexuality and free speech are actually harming people and you're sticking up for them!

I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't think anyone really thought teenagers should go to jail for sex like that - although it's important to realise the girl was under age, though barely. But in general, people think that if you are going to travel in a foreign country, and be a guest there, it's not reasonable to challenge their beliefs and laws while you do it. If you don't like them, don't go. In that case, it was largely teenagers being clueless plus a vindictive mother, but it's a bit like people who get caught in a place like Singapore with drugs. It's difficult to be very sympathetic.

The other issue is that even for citizens people tend to see a differernce between political action like trying to get laws changed, and just being an asshole. A shirt that says Allah is a lesbian doesn't reflect anyone's actual beliefs, it's totally incoherent. The whole purpose of it is to be offensive.

People in the west, at least in the past, were willing to accept offensive things when they had a greater purpose, or reflect a real belief. This shirt didn't reflect a true belief, but it may have had the purpose of creating a political debate over an important social issue.
But if the whole purpose had been only to be rude and offensive about Islam or another religion? Most people think that even if that should be legal, it's the behaviour of a dickhead.

I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't think anyone really thought teenagers should go to jail for sex like that - although it's important to realise the girl was under age, though barely. But in general, people think that if you are going to travel in a foreign country, and be a guest there, it's not reasonable to challenge their beliefs and laws while you do it. If you don't like them, don't go. In that case, it was largely teenagers being clueless plus a vindictive mother, but it's a bit like people who get caught in a place like Singapore with drugs. It's difficult to be very sympathetic.

The other issue is that even for citizens people tend to see a differernce between political action like trying to get laws changed, and just being an asshole. A shirt that says Allah is a lesbian doesn't reflect anyone's actual beliefs, it's totally incoherent. The whole purpose of it is to be offensive.

People in the west, at least in the past, were willing to accept offensive things when they had a greater purpose, or reflect a real belief. This shirt didn't reflect a true belief, but it may have had the purpose of creating a political debate over an important social issue.
But if the whole purpose had been only to be rude and offensive about Islam or another religion? Most people think that even if that should be legal, it's the behaviour of a dickhead.

I think those guys were making a point. Possibly an offensive point, but that is ok.

I agree mostly....otoh to play devil's advocate, maybe the T shirt DID reflect the activists actual belief. Probably not, but not impossible. I read a liberal Muslim woman's blog (Shehnaz Haqqani) where she sometimes refers to God as She and Her. I suspect even gay-accepting believers of any religion would be unhappy at anyone attributing sexuality to God. I'd certainly be unhappy if any Westboro Baptist-type crazy wore a T-Shirt saying 'God is straight'.

I agree the T Shirt was probs not just worn to offend, but to start debate - about free speech over religion, about women and lgb rights too probably, and implicitly, the attitude of Islam & Muslims to them.

Could I ask, would you see Muhammad cartoons like the Jyllands Posten or Charlie Hebedo ones as making a point for a greater purpose, or just being offensive? Obviously the violent response was totally wrong whatever the purpose was.

I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't think anyone really thought teenagers should go to jail for sex like that - although it's important to realise the girl was under age, though barely. But in general, people think that if you are going to travel in a foreign country, and be a guest there, it's not reasonable to challenge their beliefs and laws while you do it. If you don't like them, don't go. In that case, it was largely teenagers being clueless plus a vindictive mother, but it's a bit like people who get caught in a place like Singapore with drugs. It's difficult to be very sympathetic.

The other issue is that even for citizens people tend to see a differernce between political action like trying to get laws changed, and just being an asshole. A shirt that says Allah is a lesbian doesn't reflect anyone's actual beliefs, it's totally incoherent. The whole purpose of it is to be offensive.

People in the west, at least in the past, were willing to accept offensive things when they had a greater purpose, or reflect a real belief. This shirt didn't reflect a true belief, but it may have had the purpose of creating a political debate over an important social issue.
But if the whole purpose had been only to be rude and offensive about Islam or another religion? Most people think that even if that should be legal, it's the behaviour of a dickhead.